News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by mondoshawan on Sunday October 27, 2019 @12:49PM (#21370834)
When you've been doing development in consumer tech, some of these missteps are glaringly obvious and having proper engineering in place from the start would have avoided much of the problem. I, too, am a backer and keep hope alive, but I, too, am a hardware developer and half the things they are saying don't jive with the facts, or are omissions critical to the product's success (RAM timing, FCC certification, etc). Have to say, I'm a bit jaded now, but if it comes out, it comes out, and I'll be happy regardless. Doesn't mean I'm going to keep my trap shut when something is fishy, though.

My big concern right now is that they're pushing hard to release before things are ready, and with this SOC, that can easily be a death knell for the product they release.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by gridlockd on Sunday October 27, 2019 @04:28PM (#21372174)
> When you've been doing development in consumer tech, some of these missteps are glaringly obvious and having proper engineering in place from the start would have avoided much of the problem.

Oh sure, that's the problem. Instead of improper engineering, they should've gone with proper engineering. They really should've known better.

In all seriousness, if you expect such a small company could build a decent phone, on a new Linux platform, on their first try, on schedule, then you're divorced from reality.

Version 1 of this thing was going to suck, no matter what. Remember, the first Android handsets by reputable manufacturers were utter garbage.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by mondoshawan on Monday October 28, 2019 @06:42PM (#21382545)
I never expected them to build a decent phone. The Linux platform had already been out for a year prior, and yes, I did expect them to do so on schedule given the fact they have laptops that they have been shipping for some time now.

I used the original Android handsets -- the first first ones that never made it to market. I remember their quality (still have one), and I'd fully expect that as the first thing coming out of the gate from Purism.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by seemssilly on Sunday October 27, 2019 @05:32PM (#21372552)
> In all seriousness, if you expect such a small company could build a decent phone, on a new Linux platform, on their first try, on schedule, then you're divorced from reality.

Oh no, of course the individual(s) that promised those things aren't divorced from reality. It's the consumer that paid money and expected the product they were that's divorced from reality...

Funny how quick you are to point the blame at someone who just went ahead and thought they'd get what they paid for, on time.

What a skewed perception.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by gridlockd on Sunday October 27, 2019 @06:05PM (#21372734)
> Oh no, of course the individual(s) that promised those things aren't divorced from reality.

I didn't say that. From a business standpoint, it seems like a very long shot.

What did you expect the advertising campaign to be like?

"We don't really know what we're doing, we're going to fuck this up, give us your money!"

CAVEAT EMPTOR (Kickstarter terms of service, paraphrased)

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by wiz21c on Sunday October 27, 2019 @02:01PM (#21371330)
>>> When you've been doing development in consumer tech, some of these missteps are glaringly obvious and having proper engineering in place from the start would have avoided much of the problem.

Maybe you could help them to prevent the next "glaringly obvious" issues ?

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by letstrynvm on Sunday October 27, 2019 @02:12PM (#21371407)
The problem isn't that they're somehow oblivious to the various problems... the problem seems to be from this guy's articles that they don't have money and manpower to tackle them.
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by wmf on Sunday October 27, 2019 @07:23PM (#21373130)
Yep, the market just can't support this kind of product. So people who know what they're doing won't even touch it and Purism is trying to do their best with totally insufficient resources. And it sounds like their best isn't very good.
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by wiz21c on Monday October 28, 2019 @02:30AM (#21374732)
That's why they need to be super open about their technical stuff. Their experience might nurture others.
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by wiz21c on Monday October 28, 2019 @02:29AM (#21374729)
Now this whole discussion reminds me of the game Star Citizen. Piles of social money go into it. But in exchange, Star Citizens delivers great demos :-) That's to a point wher I wonder : do people pay for the final product or just ofr the show, the dream it gives them (ie. exactly what you do when you pay for a good movie)...
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by mondoshawan on Sunday October 27, 2019 @02:48PM (#21371636)
I would love to -- sadly, golden handcuffs and personal goals where I'm at right now make that impossible.
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by akimball on Monday October 28, 2019 @08:45AM (#21376349)
Sounds like "personal goals" might be misaligned with personal goals?
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by mondoshawan on Monday October 28, 2019 @10:20AM (#21377236)
By "personal goals" I mean financial long term goals which take the front seat at the moment, as compared to things I would "like" to do.
Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by RandomBacon on Sunday October 27, 2019 @12:54PM (#21370866)
> My big concern right now is that they're pushing hard to release before things are ready

Because people keep hounding them!

Do you do your best work when people keep interupting you asking when it'll be ready? You would still complete your task if people weren't interupting you, right? The interuptions might cause you to say 'fuck it' and just ship just to get it over with, even though you wanted to spend 10% or whatever more time to make it 50% better.

That's what I'm getting at.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by rdiddly on Sunday October 27, 2019 @02:12PM (#21371408)
Like at a Real Job®, the day the hounding starts is precisely the day you told them you would have it done. Or maybe a day or two beforehand: "Will it be done?"

What does every boss say? Please communicate as soon as possible if you think the date is going to slip. Then everybody can recalibrate their expectations and you might get another little period of not being hounded. Though unfortunately it won't be as free of hounding as before, because your 2nd estimate will be trusted somewhat less than your first one, which turned out to be wrong.

Some bosses, not the good ones, will say "You will meet the date, end of story." But what no boss ever says is "You need to meet this date, and if you can't, I don't want to know about it. Please obfuscate."

Everybody knows a completely open phone is a hard job, but that ironically is the reason nobody believes the happy-face blog posts saying "Hi, everything's great!" I backed this project and I smelled something fishy as soon as they announced the "iterative shipping schedule." Not because I'm a crybaby who wants his phone now (in fact I opted for the latest possible shipment knowing the earlier ones would have "issues"), but because of how they tried to cloak the obvious and expected ("We're not ready") in terms of something straight out of Animal Farm ("We always planned it this way.") You tryin' to say you ain't ready dawg? Just say that.

As usual the missing ingredient is leadership. You need somebody who's a compass needle, not a weathervane. You need somebody who's confident enough to tell the truth, warts and all, and who knows how to get everybody to love the warts. People will dump even more money and manpower in to help you if you do that.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by azdle on Sunday October 27, 2019 @01:37PM (#21371152)
Are there people hounding them to release it? This series of blog posts certainly isn't. All I've seen that could possibly be construed as hounding (this post included) is just asking for the honesty and transparency that they made a big deal about in their original campaign.

I'm a backer. I have a devkit. I opted for Aspen, Birch, and Chestnut, in that order, just like the author. I had also been figuring I'd also end up buying a batch Fir (mech v2, Q4 2020) when it came out because I can't imagine there won't be shortcomings with the versions before that. I also already own a Neo Freerunner and a Firefox Flame. I say that all to show that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is when I say I want an open source phone.

However, even I am considering requesting a refund. I've been burned on kickstarter before and this project is so far following the "this project isn't going to deliver" manual to a t.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by mondoshawan on Sunday October 27, 2019 @01:19PM (#21371020)
Usually you dont bypass engineering practices because customers are hounding you. The best way is to answer, demonstrate, and improve customer relations by showing them the facts. Answer a critic and you will better improve your relations. Customers can and do wait when the waiting is warranted.

Thus far, Purism has been omitting facts such as RAM performance, and sidestepping directed questions. These don't instill confidence in customers for an "open" company.

Moreover, hardware cannot be shipped this way. Schedules and the needs of the hardware dictate the control of the schedule. You literally cannot ship a PCB until regulatory requirements are satisfied and the boards are assembled.

Re:The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 by mondoshawan on Sunday October 27, 2019 @01:24PM (#21371069)
I should also note: RMAs are literally taken off the profit line as a total loss in manufacturing -- if you ship something that doesnt work or has major issues, you are throwing money away.