News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:05AM (#21334185)
The simplest explanation for lots of confusing events is that the intelligence agencies have enjoyed supremacy over the government for some time already. They run the media as well: just look at the glowing plaudits for their fake "whistleblower" as contrasted with the ongoing disdain for actual whistleblowers.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:07AM (#21334205)
That's not nearly as simple as the explanation that the public doesn't actually care about whether domestic agencies are spying on everyone. I think most Americans are in the "I have nothing to hide" line of thinking.

The media won't carry a story that their numbers tell them doesn't have legs with the audience.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:37AM (#21334459)
Forget the public, why don't elected officials themselves act more in simple self-interest? Not all of them are bankrolled by the military-industrial complex, yet not a one ever utters a peep about the trillions we spend on evil security-theater bullshit. No, killing lots of people in the Middle East does not make us safer, which anyone on any of the relevant Congressional committees could tell you. Most of them would be happy to spend those trillions on other priorities. None of them, with the partial exception of e.g. Rep. Gabbard, ever say a thing about this.

Why is that?

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by playeren on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:25AM (#21334930)
I would guess that people in general are fearful of reprecussions when the antagonists are 'better connected', 'higher ranked' or 'richer'. Often the scariest threats are those implied.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by fsagx on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:22PM (#21336175)
In a moment of accidental candor on Maddow's show, Senator Schumer lets you know who he thinks really runs DC...

"Let me tell you: You take on the intellegence community and they have six ways from Sunday of getting back at you."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QbADuhhu7w

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by playeren on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:36PM (#21336322)
The possibility of a secret police state scares me more than any bombs or shootings ever could. It is absolutely an existential threat to freedom, because as part of its nature, it is able to quell dissent, and largely control the flow of information "in the name of freedom".

Hypothetically, of course.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by InvaderFizz on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:38AM (#21335722)
There are plenty that do. They end up making waves in the libertarian and conspiracy communities and are generally blacklisted by the mainstream press.

The two communities above are receptive to messages about government overreach and corruption, the general public seems not to care much.

I suspect this is largely because libertarians and conspiracy theorists (which do overlap to some extent) are already skeptical of government "goodness" and anything that feeds that skepticism is easily accepted. The general public places government on a higher moral plane of existence and any challenge to that is met with skepticism and excuses.

The end result is that those that speak out/expose the government are sidelined and punished through smears or government action. See: Attacks on Gabbard, Ron Paul, Snowden, Bill Binney, Assange, etc.

It always fascinated me that the discussion of the leaked Clinton emails conveniently focused on the speculative source and motivation, never on the content of the emails with valid DKIM signatures. There is literally no question that those emails are real and unaltered.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:09PM (#21336022)
> It always fascinated me that the discussion of the leaked Clinton emails conveniently focused on the speculative source and motivation, never on the content of the emails with valid DKIM signatures

Because there was nothing in them that painted Clinton in a bad light. They were normal boring emails that were sensationalized in conspiracy blogs but recognized as normal boring emails by professional journalists.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by drak0n1c on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:07PM (#21337205)
There were multiple emails from journalists at supposedly neutral reputable outlets asking the campaign to check and edit their articles before publishing. Also in an email Donna Brazile of CNN agreed to forward the debate questions to the campaign before the debate.

If the act of leaking emails about media collusion is a "bad" thing that influenced the election in one way, so can the media collusion itself be a "bad" thing that influenced the election the other way.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @05:54PM (#21339447)
> There were multiple emails from journalists at supposedly neutral reputable outlets asking the campaign to check and edit their articles before publishing

Despite what the conspiracy bloggers would have you believe, this is standard fact checking. If the conspiracy bloggers did that, they wouldn't have anything to report.

> Also in an email Donna Brazile of CNN agreed to forward the debate questions to the campaign before the debate.

This was heavily covered mainstream news and resulted in CNN firing Brazile. Brazile also assisted the Sanders campaign as the Sanders campaign has admitted, but we don't have the Sanders campaign emails to see how much.

https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/3038...

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by drak0n1c on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @06:05PM (#21339543)
Conservatives are not offered the opportunity to review or edit articles about them beforehand by these same outlets. The standard is to reach out for comment, not for permission or editorial review.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @06:46PM (#21339862)
> Conservatives are not offered the opportunity to review or edit articles about them beforehand by these same outlets.

Clinton's team was not offered the opportunity to edit or review the articles either. They were sent articles about the costs of policy proposals to respond with their own numbers. If you think this is out of the ordinary or that conservatives don't get the same consideration, what do you think " did not immediately respond to requests for comment" means at the end of news articles?

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @04:24PM (#21338592)
Was there ever any evidence that having the questions is actually dirty pool, or was that more an instance of "ask and ye shall receive, and nobody else asked?"
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:21PM (#21337908)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @04:25PM (#21338599)
I don't get it. What's the issue with this email?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @04:38PM (#21338736)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @08:36PM (#21340541)
This email does not clarify the significance of either email.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:16PM (#21341069)
I think that's the point. The leaked emails were boring and normal except to conspiracy theorists.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:33PM (#21341434)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Thursday October 24, 2019 @12:40AM (#21341681)
That claim is easily refuted with a minute of Googling, just like the Pizzagate conspiracy theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory#Etymology_...
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Thursday October 24, 2019 @07:45AM (#21343611)
Hah, the difference being some people still believe in conspiracy theories. Nobody believes in Pizzagate.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Thursday October 24, 2019 @01:09PM (#21346667)
The person posting Podesta emails in this thread believes in Pizzagate.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Thursday October 24, 2019 @03:11PM (#21348117)
That can't be. Nobody still believes in Pizzagate. That building didn't even have a basement.

Clearly they're part of a conspiracy to make us believe, against all possible odds, that anyone still believes in Pizzagate.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Thursday October 24, 2019 @11:06PM (#21351480)
Yes they must feel like fools, believing that multiple national politicians would associate with an organized pedophilia ring, for instance even flying on a private plane that had been nicknamed "The Lolita Express".
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Thursday October 24, 2019 @11:47PM (#21351683)
I mean, they should probably feel like fools believing there was child sex trafficking going on in the basement of a building that has no basement, even if some other conspiracies turn out to be real. It's a textbook case of mob mentality that so many people believed the lies and nobody did even basic legwork.

(And let's note: it's not like 4chan broke open Epstein's crimes. Old fashioned FBI legwork did. And the guy had a history of sex trafficking already, which nobody in Pizzagate did. As fun as it is to pretend to be an armchair sleuth, it sure isn't a pass-time that's got a good batting average over professional investigation).

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:24PM (#21394116)
Old fashioned FBI legwork...

You're wrong about... everything.

FBI washed their hands of this when the rest of DoJ did, in 2008. Two things caused national attention to return to Epstein: Alexander Acosta's nomination to Labor, and Julie K. Brown at the Miami Herald refusing to forget about Epstein's victims even after the rest of the media had. FBI had fuck-all to do with any of this; they don't like to investigate people who can afford to hire lawyers.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Friday October 25, 2019 @02:52AM (#21352554)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Friday October 25, 2019 @08:31AM (#21354304)
And some are so sure of their worldview that they believe in a wholly-manufactured conspiracy theory long after the reasonable evidence has discredited it, including physical evidence like the fact a building has no basement. It's a big world with a wide variety of people.

Not jakeogh though. like I said, he's part of a conspiracy to make us believe people still believe Pizzagate. The purpose of which is to undermine confidence in average human reasoning skills, which undermines faith in democracy. This is important for the next step of the Triluminati's plan.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Friday October 25, 2019 @02:48PM (#21358003)
Pointing to a specific claim that was not made as if it was. Anyone can find something to point to that is false. It's an effective way to avoid specific things that were brought up.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Friday October 25, 2019 @04:36PM (#21359001)
Since you've brought up nothing but a couple of links to emails with the word "pizza" in them somewhere and a couple of links to your own posts in the past (without any context to explain why those posts are relevant to the topic), I think I've avoided nothing specific you've claimed because you've claimed nothing specific.

Does it even count as "JAQing off [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions]" if one party in the conversation doesn't even bother asking questions?

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Friday October 25, 2019 @06:05PM (#21359710)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Friday October 25, 2019 @07:36PM (#21360280)
My question stands unanswered and further communication in this topic is likely fruitless.

jakeogh, I wish I could say I wished you the best, but I'm not a fan of conspiracy theorists and I'm not a fan of this game you're playing trying to convince people that anyone still believes in Pizzagate. Reality is already complex enough as it is.

May the Triluminati treat you gently for doing their bidding, whether or not you know you are.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Friday October 25, 2019 @09:40PM (#21361050)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Thursday October 24, 2019 @06:06AM (#21343067)
With a few more seconds one could CTRL-F 1035-960.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by patentatt on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:28AM (#21334384)
“Fake” whistleblower? This is a hop and a skip away from Q-anon territory, and shouldn’t be on hn.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:43AM (#21334535)
Real whistleblowers: Snowden, Kiriakou, Binney, Drake, Manning, Winner. Notice a theme of career loss, prison, total life upheaval, and a press that DGAF.

Fake whistleblower: still works for CIA, whistleblowing has purely political rather than administrative effects, and ongoing adulation in the press.

If you don't want to see this on HN, then downvote and move on.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by tfandango on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:50AM (#21335186)
I have a whistleblower hotline available to me at work... If I see something and call that number, my identity will be protected. That is the way my company would prefer I handle ethical issues and I will keep my job. If I gather up evidence and release it to the press, I will lose my job. That is the difference between, say Snowden and this whistleblower. But that does not negate the validity of the complaint.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by kiterunner2346 on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:00PM (#21337707)
tfandango says> "If I see something and call that number, my identity will be protected. That is the way my company would prefer I handle ethical issues and I will keep my job. If I gather up evidence and release it to the press, I will lose my job."

Do NOT believe that!

The reality is probably quite different. Many organizations (both private and civil) make such promises but, in truth, the complaint phone line/box/e-mail is a direct line to either higher-ups in the company or to someone in another agency who will, very quickly, pass identifying information to higher-ups. The whistleblower will be tracked down mercilessly and driven out always. Those for whom the whistle blows will, not infrequently, be rewarded.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've been in many public and private endeavors and, in every case, so-called whistleblower phone lines, complaint boards or monitoring companies have proven to be ineffectual and/or downright deadly to the career of anyone who contacts them. They are usually honeytraps for those poor individuals who believe their complaints will be fairly judged.

With reasonable care the press can be relied upon to vent complaints to the public w/o identifying the complainant.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by tfandango on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:28PM (#21341139)
I will remember your comments should I ever feel the need to call it.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:05AM (#21335357)
That's great. Very few people in the unsupervised services imagine that they are so well protected. Thomas Drake and John Crane might have thought using the established procedure would protect them... and we've heard of them.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by streb-lo on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:09AM (#21334760)
Well we could strive for a base level of critical thinking, something clearly missing from your statement.

A whistleblower that is heavily covered in the media because he or she aligns with the orginization's goals (sell headlines) is not 'fake'.

A whistleblower blowing the whistle on a hierarchy unable to directly fire him will also, not surprisingly, not lose his job.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:11AM (#21335421)
...heavily covered in the media because he or she aligns with the orginization's goals (sell headlines) is not 'fake'.

"Heavily covered in the media", that's an interesting criterion for "whistleblower", and I'm sure it would serve someone's interests if it got any traction. Also "critical thinking" is now defined as "believing what the war media tell us"? This would be Orwellian, if it weren't so silly.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by sjwright on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:35AM (#21335693)
You are misrepresenting what was said. "Heavily covered in the media" wasn’t cited as a criterion for a whistleblower. Actually to be more precise, it was cited as a criterion—by you—when you claimed that as a hallmark of “fake” whistleblowers.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:33PM (#21336286)
Parent claimed that media coverage was a sufficient criterion; I disagree. You've interpreted the discussion as concerned with a necessary criterion. That abuse of the idiom will come later, after the war media has moved the Overton window a bit further.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by sjwright on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @07:57PM (#21340299)
I don't understand the point of repeatedly misrepresenting what was said, since it's right here in this thread.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by streb-lo on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:39PM (#21336349)
You need to re-read what I wrote.

My claim is that media coverage cannot say anything meaningful about the authenticity of a whistleblower.

To say otherwise is a terrible argument -- Snowden himself had widespread media coverage, both positive and negative.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @01:02PM (#21336586)
Snowden's revelations are massive. They should be cited anytime every time an intelligence reptile anonymously leaks something to the press, which is every day. Instead, the only time Snowden makes the news is when they want to announce some new persecution like this recent lawsuit over his memoir. Here is on Joe f@#$ing Rogan for goodness sakes! That is not widespread coverage.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by streb-lo on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:19PM (#21337305)
Again, that is not what we're talking about.

Media coverage tells you nothing about the authenticity of a whistleblower. You have not demonstrated any useful criterion for identifying 'fake' whistleblowers other than "I do not agree with his/her goals."

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Thursday October 24, 2019 @02:26PM (#21347604)
You're right, media coverage tells us far more about the media than about the people they cover. That was actually the point I made at the top of this thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21334185

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by tssva on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:21PM (#21337319)
What you refer to as "fake whistleblower" still has their job because they followed the legal procedure for reporting abuse and therefore enjoy whistleblower protection.

The others sited didn't follow the legal procedure which would have allowed them to also enjoy whistleblower protection.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:37PM (#21338074)
Thomas Drake followed procedure, and he got burned. John Crane was one of the bureaucrats involved with that procedure, and he didn't think the burning was proper. So he followed procedure in order to blow the whistle on the burning, so then he got burned.

Unsurprisingly, no one stepped forward for Crane.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by tssva on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @07:48PM (#21340241)
Drake got burned because in addition to following the procedure he leaked information to the press which is not part of the procedure.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Thursday October 24, 2019 @09:41AM (#21344579)
After he got burned, the press found out. Why does your story keep changing?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by shadowgovt on Friday October 25, 2019 @12:04AM (#21351769)
That doesn't match the Wikipedia summary. Press leak, then the Bush administration hunted for the source of the leak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailblazer_Project#Whistleblo...

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by meheleventyone on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:35AM (#21335022)
So rather than fake it’s more legally protected versus not legally protected?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by seppin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:36PM (#21338055)
Ignore this guy, he's leaking from /r/politics
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:45PM (#21338150)
I've been to Reddit a couple of times, and never to that section. Unlike you I post under my own name. Anyway, the time for that valuable advice would have been before that comment spawned a big subthread and got upvoted into double digits...
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by emiliobumachar on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @01:01PM (#21336576)
Care to name a couple examples? As it is, it sounds like a classic No True Scotsman to me.

No True Whistleblower gets "glowing plaudits" and "ongoing adulation".

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by davidwitt415 on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:18PM (#21336131)
Bollocks. As Matt Taibbi correctly noted, a CIA whistleblower would only be a whistleblower if he were to expose malfeasance within CIA activities.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by IanDrake on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:28AM (#21334951)
OK, he/she is not fake. So:

What is their name? IDK. What exactly did they hear? IDK. From who did they hear it from? IDK.

People here seem awfully sure about something they know nothing about.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by duxup on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:10AM (#21334232)
Intelligence agencies "run the media"?

How so?

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by defen on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:10PM (#21336034)
"Run the media" in this context doesn't mean there's some CIA commissar approving every article or broadcast. What it means generally is that access to "leaks", scoops, "anonymous government sources", "high level intelligence officials", etc is predicated on uncritically toeing the "intelligence community" line. Failing to do so means no more access, and you will be replaced by someone else.

Take the lessons of Manufacturing Consent and apply them to the contemporary political context instead of Vietnam and East Timor, even if the elite media seems to be aligned with your own political beliefs.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by duxup on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:17PM (#21336113)
Any leaker is going to have their POV and motivations.

But I don't see any reason to belive that it constitutes 'controlling the media'.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by defen on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:30PM (#21336255)
How could you be a member of any standing in the elite media if you don't have access to "leaks"? If something leaks that wasn't actually approved by the agencies, what do you think is going to happen to the leaker?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by duxup on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:28PM (#21337395)
I don't know what you mean by the first question.

As for the second I'm not sure what you feel the answer is there either, more what it means.

There is a whole history of folks leaking things for you to look at.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by defen on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @04:23PM (#21338577)
My point is that any time an "anonymous government official" or "high level intelligence official" or whatever leaks something to the prestige press - meaning, the article says "according to anonymous government sources..." - AND the leaker is not jailed / prosecuted, THEN you have to assume that the leak was deliberate (approved at a high level) and in service of the intelligence agency's own ends.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by puranjay on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:48AM (#21335828)
Nothing totally proven but you might find this interesting:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by Jeema101 on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:18PM (#21336122)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jammygit on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:53PM (#21336494)
Is there really anything simple about “running the media”?