News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by Svip on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @05:35AM (#21332857)
It really helps that in neither Denmark nor the Netherlands, helmets are mandatory. Unlike in say Sweden, where casual biking is having a hard time taking off.

But it kind of bothers me that Danes and Dutchmen seem to be rather disinterested in one another's achievements on this front. There is a lot of lessons from both sides, that never seems to be discussed in one another's media, to the point (anecdote alert!) where I've seen people in either country be surprised that there is a similar biking culture in the other country.

And people still love their cars in either country, even though I believe it's even more expensive to own a car in the Netherlands (and I thought Denmark was pricey!).

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by mcv on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @06:55AM (#21333277)
I think cycling is inherently more a local thing than cars. Nobody needs interstate or international bicycle paths, because nobody cycles that far. So it makes sense that the interest is more local, and maybe that's also why smaller countries like Denmark and Netherland are more successful at it.

Bicycle infrastructure is primarily about towns and cities. So if you want this big push, you have to do it at the city level, but not just a bike path here or there, but redesign the entire city for bicycles. Have bike thoroughfares, make sure bikes are the best way to get around the center, and for any kind of traffic that stays within a town or borough. Cars are only for getting out of the city.

Many Dutch towns are increasingly redesigned with that idea in mind, most thoroughly perhaps the town of Houten[0], where the only way to get anywhere by car is to take the ring road, whereas bikes get quick shortcuts through the center. That makes bicycles attractive and keeps the pollution from cars out of the center. Travel within the town will favour the bike because it's easier and quicker than a car, which reduces the amount of car traffic, and reduces congestion and pollution.

That's the level at which you need to address this. Well, that and revoking any national helmet laws for bikes, because that's been shown to keep people in cars.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houten

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by gbrown on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @08:19AM (#21333782)
> Nobody needs interstate or international bicycle paths, because nobody cycles that far.

IMHO, this is 120% just a chicken and egg problem. Sure, nobody bikes that far to work, but if you build it people can and will travel large distances to visit just to go on bike tours. In my state, we have an annual event which attracts thousands in which people bike hundreds of miles from one side to the other. Rural highways are closed down/protected for bikes, but just for that one week.

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by mcv on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @08:55AM (#21334092)
True. In fact, the previous owner of our house went on a bicycle vacation in the US where he'd cycle down route 66.

In Europe bicycle vacations are pretty common, but it's very different from a regular commute. I did have one coworker once who biked about 50 km to work, but he was very much an exception. For most people, 10 km is a reasonable maximum.

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by bluGill on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:12AM (#21334251)
Sure there are bike vacations, and perhaps we can make them a little more popular. I'm not going to take my family on such a vacation: most of our vacations are visiting grandparents. With a car and modern freeways we can make the trip in 21 hours of driving (split over a few days - we try to visit some other uncle along the way), few people get enough continuous vacation to bike that far. If flying wasn't such a hassle I'd probably do that instead (driving is cheaper)
Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by clarry on Thursday October 24, 2019 @05:03AM (#21342792)
I've done some 50 to 90 km (one way) intercity trips on bike. I'd love to do more with the help of extended range and speed with electric assist but they have a silly 25 kph speed limit. If you get a faster electric, it'll be treated like a moped -- you need license, insurance, registration. Largely defeats the point of cycling for me.
Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @08:41AM (#21333957)
You aren’t wrong from a recreational perspective. But from a practical one meant to alleviate traffic and pollution, long distance intercity biking is less viable in addressing those compared to public transit.
Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by gbrown on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:16AM (#21335479)
No argument there, I just think it's also worthwhile from a quality of life + tourism $ perspective.
Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:25PM (#21336200)
Ya, but it should be classed in that bucket rather than to alleviate other problems. E.g. there are some nice new recreational bike trails here in Washington and Idaho along old rail road routes. They won’t do much for rush hour traffic, but they are nice to have.
Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by gbrown on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:48PM (#21336439)
True, though I do think it's worth looking for connections between the two. A rail trail running through an area could form a good route for many different short commutes all along its length. If it's all rural, then sure - there's unlikely to be any overlap. If it connects populated areas, then subsections are likely to be multi-purpose.

That's the case for a lot of the trails in my state - there are big, rural, rail trail loops, but the suburban/urban connections to the routes are excellent commuting corridors.

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by Mediterraneo10 on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @08:25AM (#21333831)
> Nobody needs interstate or international bicycle paths, because nobody cycles that far.

Yes, they do. There is a whole series of trans-Europe routes, the Eurovelo network, and some of them are downright crowded with whole families in the summer.

I do some cycling every summer in Serbia and Bulgaria and my route sometimes intersects the Eurovelo 6. It is often a crap shoot if I am going to find accommodation in the smallest towns, because the rooms might all be booked by French and Germans on a cycling holiday along the length of the Danube.

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by maxerickson on Thursday October 24, 2019 @01:15AM (#21341834)
In much of the US, the longer distance recreational bike paths are more developed than local infrastructure.

One driver of that is rail trails.

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by rapnie on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @05:56AM (#21332978)
I haven't been to Denmark so I can't compare, but I agree there is much to be learned by looking at how other countries fare.

In the densely populated Netherlands we are facing very serious gridlock problems now with cars clogging the highways and railways at full capacity.

We can't keep building new infrastructure (highways) at the pace we did before, because - besides being very expensive - we lack the space for it. New solutions may lie in promoting remote work, carpooling and shortening home/work commute distances.

I also suspect that bicycle infra will be developed even further (e.g. with bike highways) as they take less space and are less disruptive to the landscape.

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by lazyjones on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @07:25AM (#21333444)
> We can't keep building new infrastructure (highways) at the pace we did before, because - besides being very expensive - we lack the space for it. New solutions may lie in promoting remote work, carpooling and shortening home/work commute distances.

You can build highways and rails in 3 dimensions. The bicycle simply cannot replace cars and trains in any meaningful way, despite the rise in numbers of single, childless urbanites.

Re:We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes by ocschwar on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:18PM (#21336124)
In the Netherlands? You can. But it then sinks into the polders.