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Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by Snawoot on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:35PM (#21314249)
Sorry for posting under top comment, but I think it is very important.

Official response hides fact OpenVPN CA keys also leaked, so attacker could impersonate any other NordVPN server: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/Snawoot/85f77356e229d77aa...

RADIUS secret key also leaked, so propably it is possible to break into EAP session which infers session secret key for StrongSwan.

Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by panarky on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:46PM (#21314373)
Also allowing historical sessions to be decrypted.
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by rasengan on Monday October 21, 2019 @02:51PM (#21315850)
Also looks like NordVPN has been misleading customers about the number of servers they have (or didn't make clear they were VM/containers).
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by dx034 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:15AM (#21323226)
I don't think they ever wrote anywhere that they have 6,000+ physical servers. Calling a VM (like an EC2 instance) a server is not unusual. For the customers it was important that the resources, bandwidth and different IPs were available. For that it doesn't matter if it's a physical server.
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by kzrdude on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:24PM (#21316888)
Who has logs of full historical sessions, and the tools to decrypt them? NSA?
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by Forbo on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:50PM (#21317191)
Yeah, as far as I understand that's pretty much the purpose of the Utah datacenter.
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by xvector on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:53PM (#21315188)
> RADIUS secret key also leaked, so propably it is possible to break into EAP session which infers session secret key for StrongSwan.

Could you elaborate on this? I am familiar with PKI so the first part makes sense, but I am not familiar with the intricacies of VPNs so I am not sure what this means.

Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by Snawoot on Monday October 21, 2019 @02:23PM (#21315507)
When StrongSwan EAP-RADIUS plugin is in use, authentication delegated to RADIUS server. Actual EAP handshake occurs between VPN client and RADIUS server. [1]

Some EAP authentication methods (namely, EAP-MSCHAPv2 and EAP-TLS) export Master Session Key, which is exported to StrongSwan via MS-MPPE-Send-Key/MS-MPPE-Recv-Key EAP attributes. [2] So, MSK derived on RADIUS side and sent to StrongSwan. Eavesdropper with knowledge of RADIUS secret key capable to intercept and decrypt such EAP payload.

[1] - https://wiki.strongswan.org/projects/strongswan/wiki/EAPRadi...

[2] - https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5216#section-2.3

Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by iscoelho on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:53AM (#21325113)
Read up on "Perfect forward secrecy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_secrecy

Assuming their IPsec was enabled with it (and OpenVPN should be enabled by default), them leaking their keys does not matter. The sessions can not be decrypted even if the master key is leaked.

TLS also has perfect forward secrecy by default.

Impersonation is an issue, but the article stated the CA keys have already been rotated and are out of date.

EDIT: I meant to reply to the post below me, but this is fine. Sorry about that!

Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by Snawoot on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:42PM (#21325724)
> Impersonation is an issue, but the article stated the CA keys have already been rotated and are out of date.

They were not rotated back then in 2018, so we can only guess if MITM had place. Their line of defence appealing to keys which are NOW outdated is just ridiculous.

> Read up on "Perfect forward secrecy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_secrecy

> The sessions can not be decrypted even if the master key is leaked.

It's not true. PFS provides cryptographic isolation between long-term keys and session key used to encrypt data. Obviously, if MSK compromised it is irrevelant, how it was inferred: with PFS or not.

Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by iscoelho on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:36PM (#21327102)
> They were not rotated back then in 2018, so we can only guess if MITM had place. Their line of defence appealing to keys which are NOW outdated is just ridiculous.

MITM could have taken place anyway because the attacker was on the machines. They did not need the key.

> It's not true. PFS provides cryptographic isolation between long-term keys and session key used to encrypt data. Obviously, if MSK compromised it is irrevelant, how it was inferred: with PFS or not.

PFS implementations have the session key rotated automatically in software and dependent on the implementation multiple session keys are in use at any given time dependent on flow. The PFS session key would also be different for every VPN server in the NordVPN environment. The only possible way to compromise a session on another VPN node (that was not compromised itself) would have been to intercept it at the time of the session being created and MITM by injecting your own PFS session key.

That is why it is called "Forward secrecy": the session can not be decrypted in the future, only in the present.

Unless your assumption is that this is a state actor with the ability to MITM connections in the first place, or a rogue ISP BGP hijacking that would have been obviously seen on something like BGPStream [https://bgpstream.com/], it is safe to say that no other VPN node's traffic was compromised. Only traffic on this single host in this single location.

More reading: https://www.speaknetworks.com/what-is-ipsec-vpn-pfs-perfect-... (Step 5)

"Instead of making use of the DH Keys Calculated during Phase-1, PFS forces DH-Key calculation during Phase-2 Setup as well as Phase-2 periodic Rekey. The PFS ensures that the same key will not be generated and used again."

OpenVPN (using TLS) also uses PFS by default. There is a reason it is called "Perfect."

EDIT: PFS is commonly also implemented by Diffie-Hellmen (DHE) key exchange: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie–Hellman_key_exchange

EDIT 2: I am not defending them as well. I just believe extrapolating the technical details is fear mongering at best. Believe it is best to focus on the facts as it makes for a stronger argument.

Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by Snawoot on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:21PM (#21327541)
I've lost track of discussion and maybe some misunderstanding takes place, but I'll attempt to synchronize.

There are two distinct severe security issues. First one is leaked CA key, which allows to certify any key as a valid key for NordVPN server certificate key. I think it is not necessary to argue about this: traffic decryption to any Nord OpenVPN server became simple as network MITM. Not likely a state-level BGP hijack, but local attack targeting channel of small group of users. Anyway, we do not have cryptographical guarantees since this point.

Second issue is leaked RADIUS key. Why it is a problem for encryption? Because EAP authentication and key derivation runs between VPN client and RADIUS, and VPN server receives derived keys as attributes of EAP message: https://wiki.strongswan.org/projects/strongswan/wiki/EAPRadi...

> The eap-radius plugin does not implement an EAP method directly, but it redirects the EAP conversation with a client to a RADIUS backend server. On the gateway, the EAP packets get extracted from the IKE messages and encapsulated into the RADIUS protocol, and vice versa. The gateway itself does not need special support for a specific EAP method, as it handles the EAP conversation between the client and the RADIUS backend more or less transparently.

> For EAP methods providing an MSK, the RADIUS server must include the key within the MPPE-Send/Receive Keys; Unfortunately, FreeRADIUS before 2.1.10 did not include these attributes when used with EAP-MSCHAPv2.

So, despite session encryption key is not bound directly to long-term secrets which server possesses, they can be extracted from communication between StrongSwan and RADIUS server.

PFS has nothing to do with all of it. In first case it is possible to issue VALID certificate for eavesdrop VPN server and redirect users traffic to it. In second case MSK probably can be extracted communication between VPN server and RADIUS server (I can't say if it will require MITM of RADIUS session or it is possible to decrypt EAP payload with passive sniffing and posession of RADIUS secret key).

Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by chelmzy on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:20PM (#21314794)
What is the source of the gist you linked?
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by Snawoot on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:39PM (#21314997)
It is copy of snippet linked from 8ch.net: https://web.archive.org/web/20180504001844/https://8ch.net/b...
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by blaser-waffle on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:01PM (#21326753)
Hasn't that site been down for weeks now?
Re:NordVPN confirms it was hacked by Snawoot on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:30PM (#21327634)
It's a snapshot of thread dated by May 3, 2018. Info leaked long time ago, but became sensation just recently.