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Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by z2 on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:57PM (#21254549)
I'm confused by your main point. Do you mean, as opposed to other foreign workers and students on temporary work/student visas, who can somehow migrate their friends and family over and therefore be subject to less coercion?
Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by president on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:13PM (#21254656)
No, I was pointing out that China is unique in that they would have no moral qualms in coercing their citizens abroad using violence. I'm sure my coworkers from the EU probably don't ever have to worry about being in a situation where they would have to choose between spying or hurting their family.
Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by TkTech on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:26PM (#21254730)
I agree with you (Someone from France doesn't have to worry about the modern version of China's 9 generation purge[1]), but as a Canadian it's very common to see the Chinese students here wildly supportive of the CCP, including harassing and attacking Hong Kong protesters. I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place.

With a billion and a half citizens it's unlikely they lack for fanatics to exploit.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by ekianjo on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:50PM (#21255390)
> I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place.

Resistance against the CCP is a very tiny minority since there is a heavy brainwashing about how great everything CCP does since kids go to school at a young age - and they never get any other version of reality.

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by cocoggu on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:33AM (#21255802)
Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese.

It's not only about brainwashing.

40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was below the poverty line. Today it's between 10% and 15%. Under the party governance, almost everyone saw their life standards go up substantially. A lot of the people studying abroad saw their family starting from the bottom and they can now afford to study in western universities. They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far.

Just another example: We have some friends who bought a very expensive new apartment in Beijing (around 4.5M US$). This is a brand new residence founded by Wang Jianlin, the founder of Wanda Group (the most powerful estate developer in China). The government allowed him to run this project under one condition: to build 3 apartment blocks on the same field (sharing the same park) which will be given to families under the poverty line. A lot of the wealthy people complained a lot about this, 1/3 of them got a refund and the price of the apartments dropped.

So to get back to my point, this is not only brainwashing. The party is giving its people a new life, and these people will be thankful and loyal for at least decades.

I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by JackFr on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:19AM (#21258614)
And yet it is brainwashing that they believe the CCP is responsible for the bulk of the poverty reduction, rather than simply opening China to international trade. When one compares the postwar growth of Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan to that of China it might be more correct to say that rather than making them rich, the CCP stopped empoverishing the people.
Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by goatinaboat on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @04:50AM (#21256675)
They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far.

How do they rationalise that HK had a far higher standard of living all along, by doing exactly the opposite of what the CCP said?

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by throw0101a on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:10AM (#21257959)
> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.

At what point will be start going up Maslow's hierarchy of needs and what more that material / economic satisfaction? Will there come a point when people feel "rich enough" and want other things?

Recently the vlogger laowhy86 and his Chinese wife have moved to the US because things have gotten a bit too 'totalitarian' for him in China:

* https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by TurkishPoptart on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:24PM (#21262595)
China is wealthy in spite of the CCP and its strict control, not because of it. And until they get private property rights figured it out, they could fail to stay wealthy.
Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by ekianjo on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:24AM (#21280235)
That is the definition of brainwashing. If people believe economic growth comes from CCP and not opening up China to international trade then their view of the world is massively skewed.
Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by throw0101a on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:12AM (#21257971)
> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.

What is the 'cultural priority' of the Chinese people?

> But, with only very few exceptions, they really conceived of liberalism not as an end in itself but rather as a means to the decidedly nationalist ends of wealth and power. They believed that liberalism was part of the formula that had allowed the U.S. and Great Britain to become so mighty. [...]

> It must be understood that liberalism and nationalism developed in China in lockstep, with one, in a sense, serving as means to the other. That is, liberalism was a means to serve national ends — the wealth and power of the country. And so when means and end came into conflict, as they inevitably did, the end won out. Nationalism trumped liberalism. Unity, sovereignty, and the means to preserve both were ultimately more important even to those who espoused republicanism and the franchise.

* https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-t...

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by aclsid on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:19AM (#21255528)
Kind of similar to North America in a way. And just like the Chinese, you guys don't realize it because as the saying goes, everybody thinks their crap doesn't stink.

Sure in the case of China it is a more crude form of propaganda, but if you don't believe me, just try to find information about what happened in Ecuador just now in your newsmedia. That information was supressed by media conglomerates because of a pro-US president that ended up doing something wildly unpopular. Compare the same exact event happening in a country like Venezuela. You get the idea.

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by goatinaboat on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:29AM (#21255787)
Kind of similar to North America in a way.

Not really the same. Americans are taught to love an abstract, idealised version of America, an eagle perched atop a flag, and it doesn’t really work, half of Americans hate even that, and that’s fine, no one really cares. Whereas the Chinese are taught to love a specific leader of a specific party operating a specific system, etc. And the consequences for not complying are harsh.

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by swagasaurus-rex on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @02:09AM (#21255931)
As shitty as America is, we are allowed to criticize our government.

And boy do we have a lot of harsh things to say about all of them.

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by atopuzov on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:21AM (#21257378)
Try criticising corporations, especially the one you work for or the one the company you work for works with.
Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by TurkishPoptart on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:27PM (#21262625)
I hate Amazon.com. And Facebook. And Google! (Disclaimer: I still use Google search.)
Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by aclsid on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:21AM (#21258041)
Oh nobody denies that you have more political freedoms, I'm talking about why for instance, would your society focus so much about China being bad, highlighting the differences, whereas countries like Vietnam, still a communist state, you get to see tourism articles and everything.

What Israel is doing to some Palestinians would also qualify as shady behavior, but what I'm saying is that I don't have a personal feud with any of those countries, and I would totally visit them. But I have friends and family that based on the amount of propaganda about China are refusing to buy certain products, use software like Wechat, etc. That is sophisticated propaganda in my opinion.

Re:Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of ha... by sangnoir on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:55PM (#21255416)
Do they also make 6 year-olds give a pledge of allegiance?