Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by fname on Thursday January 20, 2011 @05:46PM
(#2125640)
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not quite sure I follow how they "almost" got it. Perhaps if they were negotiating numbers and figures and it just fell through -- I could see that; but just because the initial meetings didn't go so well or were hung up on NDAs? I don't get it.
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by shasta on Thursday January 20, 2011 @05:42PM
(#2125624)
I'm afraid most companies have no idea how much their legal departments, with all of the bullshit they pile on everyday business transactions, cost them.
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by czhiddy on Thursday January 20, 2011 @05:51PM
(#2125655)
What device(s) would Apple even stick the PrimeSense technology in? The 12 watts [1] needed to drive the thing only really makes sense on desktops, and for what - a weird experimental Minority Report style 3D interface?
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by nitrogen on Friday January 21, 2011 @04:13AM
(#2126909)
Is that 12W continuous, or just 12W when the motors are moving the head? It seems to me that it should be possible to run an audio interface and two cameras on 2.5W (theoretical max USB 2.0 power). A DSP performing acoustic echo cancellation and depth calculation and a bright IR emitter could add another few watts, but I don't think that accounts for 12W.
I've got a Kinect at my desk, and the power supply is rated for 12V at up to 1.08A, or ~13W total. My Kill-a-watt shows it drawing ~3W at idle, ~4.4W running just depth, and 4.6W running depth and RGB. Running depth, RGB, and the motor only gets me up to 5W.
The Kinect power supply lists 100V-230V at 0.3A. Using the minimum voltage, that's a peak draw of 30VA. The power supply has a measured power factor of ~0.44, which if maintained to full load means it could draw .44*30=13.2W. Somehow I doubt the power supply is actually 98% efficient at its normal operating range, so in a laptop where a 12V supply is already available, the additional power draw of a complete depth sensing system could be under 4W.
To sum up, I think you could successfully integrate depth sensing into a laptop that already has a camera and microphone array, especially considering that the sensing field will be much smaller. Please correct my estimation if I've made any errors.
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by taitems on Thursday January 20, 2011 @06:13PM
(#2125718)
Imagine walking up to your desktop and it recognises who you are and automatically unlocks? Apple has been rumoured to be working on something like this.
There are a multitude of ways this technology can be applied, and just because you can't envisage a way to use them - it doesn't make them any less useful.
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by Samuel_Michon on Thursday January 20, 2011 @09:41PM
(#2126232)
It would make sense for the current incarnation of AppleTV, as it runs iOS and it's driven by Apple's A4 chip. Technically it could run iOS games, but it's missing a direct intuitive interface (like multitouch on other iOS devices). Kinect-like tech could bridge the gap, and I wouldn't be surprised if Apple came up with something similar.
However, back in June of 2008, the AppleTV was a very different product than it is now. Its innards were more like a bare bones Mac Mini than a iPad. And aside from the architectural differences between Intel and ARM, the App Store was yet to open - Apple could not have predicted iOS becoming such an immensely popular game platform.
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by patrickgzill on Thursday January 20, 2011 @08:44PM
(#2126092)
According to people I have known who negotiated with them, Apple was far, far harder to deal with, and paid less than other customers. The "PITA" factor I find credible.
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by VomisaCaasi on Thursday January 20, 2011 @06:49PM
(#2125826)
Apple TV comes to my mind...
The Israelis probably did see far more wider uses for this technology, but it seems to me Microsoft just outbid the others and then marketed this only as a game controller. Though, I wouldn't be too surprised if we were to see more uses for this popping up in the next version of Windows or somewhere else.
Re:How Apple Almost Got Microsoft’s Kinect Game Controller
by patrickgzill on Thursday January 20, 2011 @10:39PM
(#2126358)
Obviously military, industrial, surveillance, security, shopper tracking in stores, and cashier tracking for cash businesses, would all be possible uses. Hook it up to a MakerBot and you can use it to disassemble things as well as assemble them.
EDIT: It is, however, a cool story to tell...
Right. Microsoft : PrimeSense :: Tartars : Joseph Boyce
If you’re an inventor, it probably doesn’t hurt to have a origin myth. And, I’m not quite sure if Apple is therefore the Luftwaffe or the lard...
Since Microsoft Research has such a strong computer vision team I'm surprised that they needed to go to an outside company for this technology.
[1] http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/04/kinect-teardown-two-camera...
I've got a Kinect at my desk, and the power supply is rated for 12V at up to 1.08A, or ~13W total. My Kill-a-watt shows it drawing ~3W at idle, ~4.4W running just depth, and 4.6W running depth and RGB. Running depth, RGB, and the motor only gets me up to 5W.
The Kinect power supply lists 100V-230V at 0.3A. Using the minimum voltage, that's a peak draw of 30VA. The power supply has a measured power factor of ~0.44, which if maintained to full load means it could draw .44*30=13.2W. Somehow I doubt the power supply is actually 98% efficient at its normal operating range, so in a laptop where a 12V supply is already available, the additional power draw of a complete depth sensing system could be under 4W.
To sum up, I think you could successfully integrate depth sensing into a laptop that already has a camera and microphone array, especially considering that the sensing field will be much smaller. Please correct my estimation if I've made any errors.
There are a multitude of ways this technology can be applied, and just because you can't envisage a way to use them - it doesn't make them any less useful.
"No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."
However, back in June of 2008, the AppleTV was a very different product than it is now. Its innards were more like a bare bones Mac Mini than a iPad. And aside from the architectural differences between Intel and ARM, the App Store was yet to open - Apple could not have predicted iOS becoming such an immensely popular game platform.
http://www.primesense.com/?p=487
I'm not sure how that becomes "almost," besides, what would Apple do with a game controller?
The Israelis probably did see far more wider uses for this technology, but it seems to me Microsoft just outbid the others and then marketed this only as a game controller. Though, I wouldn't be too surprised if we were to see more uses for this popping up in the next version of Windows or somewhere else.