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Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by rjzzleep on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:14AM (#21249136)
I still maintain that the problem is the UI toolkits.

The mac ecosystem now has _multiple_ viable indesign and photoshop alternatives.

AppKit, Cocoa, UIKit and all those frameworks gradually added all the features third party app developers hacked into their own UI libraries.

GTK is something developers frequently curse about and theme developers frequently abandon because the gnome team keeps breaking their themes.

QT while great is nowhere near the ease of use of the cocoa frameworks and for every 20 cocoa books you find one QT book.

Bottom line is, as much as you may hate Xcode it's exponentially easier to make a good looking application on a mac compared to any linux counterpart. At the end of the day, people want to use (for example) photoshop or something similar without dual booting.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by boudewijnrempt on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:56AM (#21249650)
And if you use the Apple toolkits, you lose around 95% of your potential market. For my project, Krita, made with Qt (not QT, Qt...), 90% of downloads are Windows, 7% Linux, 3% macOS. And since Apple seems hell-bent on making people share-croppers in their walled garden with asinine things like Metal, and notarizing and all that, well, in a year or two, it might be 0%, and I'll be fine with that.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by pfranz on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:07PM (#21251067)
I would think that 3% is because there are other viable alternatives. Personally, I've paid for Pixelmator and Acorn on macOS because my needs are more about cropping, adding text, file format, levels, or color space changes--those apps seemed to pop up quickly and had features like hardware acceleration before Photoshop because they leaned on Apple's APIs. My industry is still heavily invested in Photoshop, so I'm already familiar with it and I don't have much of a need for digital painting.

For digital painting I usually suggest people check out something like Krita or Affinity (they are already aware of Photoshop). I just don't have much firsthand experience with them since I felt like my needs were met with other software.

Sidenote: After actually downloading Krita it is more Photoshop-like than expected. I'll check it out as a replacement for myself. There's also been a huge, but very rare, need for Photoshop at my job (we use Linux) which has always been a problem (usually in modifying textures where Nuke isn't a good fit). The current plan was to try and find a CS6 license and either dual-boot Windows or use WINE or to buy Elements. Gimp was always too much to ask of them. I'll see if Krita fits that need.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by klliao on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:17PM (#21249887)
That’s not because you have 3% macOS downloads that you can say that everyone loses around 95% potential downloads. It may simply be because your app is not marketed towards Mac users and alternatives exists.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dlivingston on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:38PM (#21250122)
Krita is great (and I happen to be one of your 3%!).

Given that macOS has a reputation, deserved or not, of being the de facto OS for graphic designers, why do you think you have so relatively few Mac users?

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by AnthonyMouse on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:19PM (#21250535)
90% Windows users is basically what you would expect based on its desktop market share. The interesting thing is having more than twice as many Linux users as Mac.

This could be one of those places where the efficient market hypothesis is wrong because of incomplete information. The reputation of macOS for graphic designers is well known, but if the result of that is that everyone makes graphics design programs for macOS and not Linux then the macOS market gets saturated with supply and each supplier has to share the market with many competitors. Meanwhile the opposite on Linux, less competition so more volume per supplier.

It implies that Linux may be a good market for graphic design software because there is currently less supply there than demand. At least until more of the suppliers figure that out and release their software for it. (But that may itself cause more graphic designers to switch to Linux, which would then still justify the porting effort even as other suppliers move there too.)

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by deltron3030 on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:01PM (#21250997)
Many digital painters seem to have moved to the iPad and apps like Procreate which can be had for a few bucks. I also find eInk hardware like the Remarkable tablet and the like interesting, they run on Linux. Have you thought about a standalone tablet that runs only Krita? Even if it's only black/white, having the tools from Krita on a device like that would be killer.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by pfranz on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:13PM (#21251126)
That mirrors my experience with hobbyists. My wife doesn't like using a Wacom and we could never warrant a Cintiq. So she uses Procreate on a tablet. It's also kind of hard to get her to try new stuff because the little time she has to draw she wants to spend time drawing.

For people who do it for their job, they're willing to invest in the hardware and software. I can't speak directly to painting software, but in my industry people really cling to the software they know or the rest of the industry uses. It's an uphill battle even if the software is better or cheaper to get adoption.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by thedaemon on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:46PM (#21251421)
Procreate is really nice, I have moved on from Wacom Tablet/Krita to iPad Pro/Procreate. I suggest any artist give it a try.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by pico303 on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:50PM (#21250895)
Well, I just added a tiny bit to that 3%...I hadn't heard of Krita before, but it looks great. Looking forward to trying it out.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vetinari on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:15PM (#21250488)
> GTK is something developers frequently curse about and theme developers frequently abandon because the gnome team keeps breaking their themes.

Let's compare comparable. Neither Cocoa nor Win32 do support third-party themes; for the exactly same reason why GTK is breaking them.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vbezhenar on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:30PM (#21250668)
I remember themes for Windows XP. Have no idea, though, how many hacks were involved .
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vetinari on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:35PM (#21252581)
XP required themes signed by Microsoft. There were cracks that removed that requirement, but the result was, that when something was broken, you got to keep all the pieces.

For OSX, there were also hacks that changed the system appearance, and Apple took increasingly harder stance against them. Again, they break more than they solve.

The reason why platform vendors do not support third-party theming is, that it limits their ability for further development. They would need to preserve compatibility for something, that is internal implementation detail. For first party themes, they can keep them in lockstep with the rest of framework. For third party, they cannot. So they prevent third parties from existing.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by cpach on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:56PM (#21250307)
Good point. I’m also convinced that macOS are more willing than Linux users to pay for software, which makes it possible for the developers to get some monetary return on the time they invest in creating good and usable software.

FOSS development can of course be funded via Patreon, donations, etc. But IMHO those models doesn’t seem to work so well for sophisticated GUI applications. (With some exceptions here and there.)