Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by twoodfin on Saturday October 12, 2019 @03:56PM
(#21235768)
My guess: The binary translation support they’re going to build into ARM Macs will exclusively support x64, including low-cost bridging between x64 application code and ARM64 library code.
Not to mention Apple never leaves deprecated runtimes around for more than a few years. Once 64-bit Carbon was canned the writing was on the wall.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by Aloha on Saturday October 12, 2019 @04:15PM
(#21235901)
Thats a fair idea, I believe x86-64 is less complex with fewer addressing modes than x86 is. So that makes sense.
I'm still not sure about how I feel about an ARM laptop, I'm not opposed though.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by notmainacct on Saturday October 12, 2019 @09:11PM
(#21237557)
Arm architecture is rock-solid. The trick is making an ARM processor fast enough for desktop or laptop use. ARM has unfortunately been relegated to low-end devices even though the architecture could do well for high-end machines. We don't have a good interop for running x_86 or x_64 code on ARM so the compatibility isn't there for most users (like Windows 8 ARM). Linux is mostly fine on ARM if you can compile from source and you have a compiler for that given language that works for ARM.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by alilthrowaway on Saturday October 12, 2019 @03:51PM
(#21235743)
Just to hazard a guess...
"Intel officials believe that ARM Macs could come as soon as 2020": https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/02/21/intel-officials-b...
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by my123 on Saturday October 12, 2019 @04:48PM
(#21236136)
My guess: the old fragile Objective-C runtime ABI.
They could have done a new ABI, but that'd have broken compatibility anyway...
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by Aloha on Saturday October 12, 2019 @06:29PM
(#21236825)
Why is it more fragile than the same objc runtime in 64 bit?
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by eschaton on Sunday October 13, 2019 @01:12AM
(#21238502)
Because the 32-bit runtime has a fragile base class problem that can’t be fixed—without breaking binary compatibility. Class instance variable layout and instance sizes in the i386 runtime are fixed; making this flexible was the major improvement introduced with the x86_64 runtime.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by scarface74 on Saturday October 12, 2019 @03:49PM
(#21235734)
At what point should they drop support?
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by Aloha on Saturday October 12, 2019 @04:35PM
(#21236036)
For carbonlib? No idea, now seems fine. For 32-bit cocoa apps? I see no obvious technical reason to drop support, unless I'm missing something.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by ratww on Saturday October 12, 2019 @04:54PM
(#21236186)
I think their rationale is that they don't want to maintain 32-bit and 64-bit code forever.
But IMO, Apple should have removed Carbon last year (six years after deprecation). That would have made the removal of 32-bit Cocoa a bit less traumatic.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by snuxoll on Saturday October 12, 2019 @06:24PM
(#21236801)
Even though Linux distributions have been slowly dropping support for running on 32-bit systems nobody is talking about dropping 32-bit multilib support. The cost is primarily disk space, and Apple could just make 32-bit libraries an optional download.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by Aloha on Saturday October 12, 2019 @07:09PM
(#21237000)
Making CarbonLib an optional component several years ago would have made it clearer to users that "this is going away"
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by scarface74 on Saturday October 12, 2019 @07:53PM
(#21237191)
“Users” don’t know what CarbonLib is. When Apple announced that they weren’t porting CarbonLib, developers knew.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by Aloha on Saturday October 12, 2019 @11:06PM
(#21238072)
Users would have noticed when Application X stopped working unless they downloaded this thing that the download page for makes very clear will be unsupported in 2 years.
Re:Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS...
by scarface74 on Sunday October 13, 2019 @09:44AM
(#21240299)
Do you really think any app developer would ask the users to download a dll from the web to make their app work? They would jusr bundle it like installers bundle the Java runtime or Windows apps bundle the compatible version of msvcrt32.dll
I also don't get why they would eliminate all 32-bit userspace support though - like why eliminate support for 32-bit Cocoa apps, and I think Apple made a mistake here by eliminating support.