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Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by rocqua on Friday October 11, 2019 @07:25PM (#21229321)
What is scary about this approach is that it tends to favor conservatism. Any change achieved politically can easily be dismissed as a moral fashion (immigrant's rights, racial equality being ideal, same-sex marriage, women's rights).

This is much more of an issue when you use the methods outlined to argue against an idea. If instead you use these methods internally, this is less of an issue.

Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by dextralt on Friday October 11, 2019 @08:35PM (#21229656)
in case you haven't noticed, progressives have long since moved on from the idea of "equality" of races and sexes.
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by liara_k on Friday October 11, 2019 @11:32PM (#21230470)
According to whom? The propagandists of their political adversaries, I'd wager.
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by gruez on Saturday October 12, 2019 @12:00AM (#21230572)
I'm guessing it's the shift for advocating for equality to advocating for diversity. eg. Harvard admissions where Asians and Whites have a handicap in an effort to increase diversity.
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by liara_k on Saturday October 12, 2019 @10:34PM (#21237925)
Diversity e.g., in higher education admissions isn't just about what's fair for the students, it's also about what's best for the university and the students.

Universities are naturally xenophillic--both in their desire to understand more about the world and in their desire to influence it. Exploration and openness to new experiences and ideas are also important intellectual values important to develop in students. All of these are enhanced with a diverse student body.

As a more concrete example... $IVY_LEAGUE doesn't gain that much by having its average standard test score go from the 99th to the 99.5th percentile. From the university's perspective, it gains more by admitting students who spread the influence of the university's ideas, enrich and enlarge context in classroom discussions, etc...

Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by DuskStar on Sunday October 13, 2019 @07:32PM (#21244041)
> As a more concrete example... $IVY_LEAGUE doesn't gain that much by having its average standard test score go from the 99th to the 99.5th percentile.

Assuming accurate tests and a normal distribution of scores, shouldn't that be approximately equivalent to going from the 80th to 90th percentile?

Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by trashtester on Monday October 14, 2019 @03:27AM (#21245951)
Given you assumptions, the difference between the 80th and 90th percentile is about twice as big as the difference beteen the 99th percentile and the 99.5th percentile.
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by dextralt on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:38AM (#21230916)
According to the fact that discriminatory hiring and college admission practices are deemed perfectly acceptable. You want some sources on that?
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by malandrew on Friday October 11, 2019 @08:27PM (#21229605)
Neither conservatism nor progressivism is necessarily correct or better. Sometimes conservatism is worse because it preserves things that we should change for the better. Sometimes progressivism is worse because it doesn't fully understand why society arrived at a solution so progressives try to change things in a way they think is better but then there are all sorts of unintended consequences that turn out to be worse that what progressives were trying to change for the better.

For example, at one time progressives were trying to end segregation and promote judging someone on the content of character and not the color of their skin while conservatives fought them on this. Now progressives are trying to reinstitute segregation and promoting the idea that people should be judged on skin color and not content of character while conservatives fight them on these changes.

Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by Tronno on Friday October 11, 2019 @08:34PM (#21229634)
"Now progressives are trying to reinstitute segregation and promoting the idea that people should be judged on skin color and not content of character while conservatives fight them on these changes."

That's quite a statement. Could you go into more detail?

Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by username90 on Saturday October 12, 2019 @03:38AM (#21231296)
Progressives used to be pro blind hiring and objective criteria like tests. But after it turned out that blind hiring and objective criteria gets even less diversity than our current methods it flipped, and now conservatives wants blind hiring and objective criteria while progressives wants to pick people by gender and race.
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by goatinaboat on Saturday October 12, 2019 @06:13AM (#21231897)
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, this is an actual observable thing e.g. https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-...
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by lazyasciiart on Friday October 11, 2019 @08:40PM (#21229684)
I believe they are referring to support for concepts like Black History Month or a Women In Engineering group being equivalent to "segregation".
Re:What You Can't Say (2004) by ixtli on Friday October 11, 2019 @09:25PM (#21229895)
It’s amazing the lengths how reactionaries go to hide what they really mean. It’s most on display when we around and around entertaining their insane notions that acknowledging systemic racism is the actual racism. It’s shocking how often this argument is made.