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Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by nly on Friday October 11, 2019 @04:56AM (#21222631)
Given that Chrome ended Opera, and is effectively ending IE/Edge, people really need to take pause and appreciate and be thankful that Firefox is still around. I think the "shady shit" Mozilla has pulled lately are death rattles. I certainly don't expect it to be around in another 5-10 years.

Firefox's tiny market share is all that stands between all the W3C and WHATG publications going from "standards" to "what Chromium does".

Google is a giant corporation. One day they're going to do an IE6, and shift their focus away from the project, and the whole web will suffer.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by pawelmurias on Friday October 11, 2019 @06:08AM (#21222914)
Why would they ever do an IE6? They don't want to cripple the web as an application platform as MS did but move as much things as possible onto it.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by mpol on Friday October 11, 2019 @06:48AM (#21223124)
"Doing an IE6" for Google would be quite different from what Microsoft did, who wanted the desktop to stay relevant. For Google the web is just an advertisement platform. If/When Firefix is gone, they will hold all the cards. "Doing an IE6" might mean removing support for ad-blockers. Or making Google DNS mandatory. Or have everything you do on the web be phoned to Google, to improve your advertising experience. Assume they will find creative ways to monetize the web, ways that we didn't even think of yet. If you thought the web in 2019 was bad, beware of the Google Future.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by pavlov on Friday October 11, 2019 @09:26AM (#21224099)
AMP seems to be an example of the kind of web that (some parts of) Google wants. Hosted on their servers, transformed by their tools, commoditized and sanitized for ad insertion.

Today when you navigate to google.com from Microsoft Edge, there's a barrage of popups urging you to use Chrome instead.

When Chrome is completely dominant, maybe those popups will be on non-AMP sites urging you to "get the best experience"? It's guaranteed that there will be a lot of internal pressure to use Chrome to promote the goals of other divisions at Google.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by smitherfield on Friday October 11, 2019 @11:13AM (#21225142)
"Or have everything you do on the web be phoned to Google, to improve your advertising experience."

Chrome already does this.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by shadowgovt on Friday October 11, 2019 @01:01PM (#21226220)
> the web is just an advertisement platform

And a key UI target for a huge chunk of their applications and services, including search.

If "web browsing" doesn't work in Chrome, that's kind of a big deal for Google.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by appleflaxen on Friday October 11, 2019 @12:50PM (#21226107)
Why did MS want to do an IE6? For power and control. You imply a difference in your statement, but it's only a matter of time before it becomes too seductive to resist.

It only needs to make sense in the minds of a handful of high-level managers, and we all suffer.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by rkangel on Friday October 11, 2019 @08:12AM (#21223539)
> I think the "shady shit" Mozilla has pulled lately are death rattles.

Would you mind briefly elaborating on this? I wasn't aware that Mozilla had done anything apart from behave well.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by SmellyGeekBoy on Friday October 11, 2019 @08:30AM (#21223650)
Bundling Pocket, resetting default search provider back to Google on updates. Just a couple off the top of my head.

I'm a long-time Firefox user, FWIW.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by senorjazz on Friday October 11, 2019 @09:15AM (#21224010)
> Bundling Pocket

Why is that a problem? I never got the furore over it. When it appeared, I removed the icon and just went about my business.

Annoying yes, but certainly not "shady". From what I understood / stand it was a mozilla app they included with the browser, not that different to how firefox comes with a bookmarks app.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by ChristianBundy on Friday October 11, 2019 @12:31PM (#21225912)
It should be mentioned that it also adds articles to your new tab page, which is possible to remove but not easy for most people.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by bwat49 on Friday October 11, 2019 @04:00PM (#21227883)
> it also adds articles to your new tab page, which is possible to remove but not easy for most people

It's two clicks.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by ChristianBundy on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @06:11PM (#21264504)
Yes, if you're familiar enough with Firefox that you know where to click and are comfortable enough to experiment with customizing your browser. I don't think that's the case for most people.

It took me a few months before I realized that the page was customizable at all, especially since the triple-dot menu doesn't even show up until you hover or focus the element.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by kragen on Friday October 11, 2019 @10:53AM (#21224947)
Originally it was a proprietary program from a for-profit company. That's why people got upset.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by Crespyl on Friday October 11, 2019 @12:55PM (#21226164)
The server component is still proprietary and closed source, at least the last time I checked.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by theboulevardier on Friday October 11, 2019 @11:12AM (#21225131)
I use DuckDuckGo as my default search engine and it has never reverted back to Google. Perhaps it only happens on certain major updates??
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by thenewnewguy on Friday October 11, 2019 @12:14PM (#21225757)
Have also been using it for about a year on linux stable FF, never had it reset.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by pedrogpimenta on Friday October 11, 2019 @09:15AM (#21224009)
Yeah, bundling Pocket is not good, but if you don't use it I guess you're not being tracked? Or is there proof that it sends your info either way?

> resetting default search provider back to Google on updates Never happened to me. Was this a specific update I might have missed?

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by dpifke on Friday October 11, 2019 @09:05AM (#21223931)
How about enabling DNS-over-HTTPS, which routes your entire browsing history to a third party, based on selections labelled "OK, Got It" and "Disable Protection":

https://github.com/mozilla/doh-rollout/issues/125

Don't get me wrong, DoH is great if you have a shady ISP. But it should be opt-in, not opt-out, since those of us who don't have shady ISPs don't want all our DNS queries centralized in the same place, to be scooped up with just one FISA warrant. And dark patterns like this are a pox on the web and Mozilla shouldn't be perpetuating them.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by cptskippy on Friday October 11, 2019 @10:57AM (#21224985)
Your complaint is about a Web Extension Experiment that they're currently testing and not a feature they have shipped in the browser. It seems like this isn't shady at all, but rather they're testing something and soliciting feedback. You provided some and they responded that they plan to write a blog post about it.

So what's shady here? That the process is working?

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by dpifke on Friday October 11, 2019 @12:27PM (#21225879)
My understanding is that this is how it's being rolled out, eventually to 100% of users:

https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2019/09/06/whats-nex...

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by farisjarrah on Friday October 11, 2019 @12:59PM (#21226201)
I still don't think its shady. Mozilla have publicly stated that its possible to change the DOH provider, and furthermore they have clearly laid out their requirements for Cloudflare to participate in this experiment. This seems like a good compromise in order to force other providers to start encrypting dns requests.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by dangerface on Friday October 11, 2019 @10:50AM (#21224915)
> since those of us who don't have shady ISPs don't want all our DNS queries centralized

If you live in the US or EU your ISP logs dns queries and sells them on [0] encryption is the only solution.

[0] https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/04/big-uk-broadba...

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by shadowgovt on Friday October 11, 2019 @01:04PM (#21226245)
"OK, Got It" and "Disable Protection" is pretty accurate.

It's inconvenient, but it turns out the "open, anonymous" web has huge trust issues that bad actors use to exploit and attack the unknowing. Some of that is most readily solved by nudging users to trusted third-parties.

You can have issue with whether that third party should be trusted, but the larger issue is that the user has to trust some third party for DNS to work at all, and most don't even think twice about that question.

> since those of us who don't have shady ISPs don't want all our DNS queries centralized

If you don't hae a shady ISP, disable protection. You're already protected by your ISP not being shady, right? ;) The average user has no idea if they should trust their ISP's DNS.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by magashna on Friday October 11, 2019 @12:00PM (#21225616)
For their release in the US it's assumed that your ISP is shady.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by danmg on Friday October 11, 2019 @09:47AM (#21224280)
Google will keep the Mozilla foundation alive, because it protects them from antitrust prosecution.
Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by forgottenpass on Friday October 11, 2019 @10:16AM (#21224561)
>One day they're going to do an IE6, and shift their focus away from the project, and the whole web will suffer.

This would still be preferable to if they became the only browser and all web developers were subject to breakneck paced new features and discontinued compatibility as Google makes their characteristic impulsive lurches with zero long term vision.

Re:Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events by unethical_ban on Friday October 11, 2019 @10:58AM (#21225006)
I think a lot of the shady shit y'all are all complaining about are annoying, but not anything CLOSE to the kind of red flags that should call for the end of a product.

Bad decisions does not imply evil decisions, nor does it imply death. Pocket? A convenience people may want that might have provided money, hat didn't invade privacy. DNS over HTTPS? The horror! They are trying to enhance privacy on the Internet but haven't done it perfectly!