Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by rdiddly on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:13PM
(#21207470)
Indeed, or to be a bit cute about it: "Does the 'America' graph include the 'China' part of America?"
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by rdiddly on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @06:36PM
(#21208926)
Not that China is part of America. More like the two are squabbling lovers locked in an embrace so tight that it's literally "'til death do us part."
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by pm90 on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @07:48PM
(#21209446)
Doesn't matter. The amazing thing about trade is actually how much of a great tool it is in bringing countries and societies closer despite all other differences.
Said in other ways, China and the US may not like each other, but they will never go to war with each other as long as they trade with each other.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by JackFr on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:31PM
(#21207691)
Your point is well taken, insofar as manufactured goods, but does not explain the decline in agricultural and construction inputs. In agriculture we're (currently) a net exporter and construction is non-traded.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by vannevar on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:50PM
(#21207892)
There certainly may be industries where real dematerialization is taking place, and the author of the article would've been better off sticking with those. Instead the article makes sweeping, unsubstantiated claims across the entire economy that just aren't credible.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by anon1m0us on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:42PM
(#21207823)
Decades of optimization. Fertilizers sold by the pound are purer now than before -- more refined. GMO makes crops immune to many pests and diseases. Cross breeding with drought tolerant crops reduces water requirements.
Technology like Hydroponics also reduces consumption while increasing output.
Computer aided design helps with construction.
It's all there.
This is part of why R. Buckminster Fuller thought there was more than enough to go around.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by nostromo on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:29PM
(#21207657)
> This consumption takes into account not only domestic production of the resource but also imports and exports.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by impatientduck on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:30PM
(#21207679)
But, importantly, not the current account balance (https://www.bea.gov/news/blog/2019-03-27/us-current-account-...).
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by vannevar on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:27PM
(#21207628)
Yes, leaving out the consumption of materials in the form of goods manufactured elsewhere is such a giant, glaring hole in the logic that it strains credibility to believe it's mere oversight. It looks like deliberate misinformation.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by JackFr on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:35PM
(#21207737)
You seem to have ignored the parts about agricultural and construction inputs.
Additionally, the manufacturing output of the US economy has continued to grow in the 'post-peak' period.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by vannevar on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:41PM
(#21207817)
No, I read the whole thing. It talks about imports and exports of raw material, but excludes the import of those same materials in the form of goods manufactured elsewhere. For example, raw copper would be included, but copper coils in a refrigerator manufactured in Korea would not. That seems like an extremely arbitrary distinction, and one which would likely change the graphs presented significantly.
Re:Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and En...
by hourislate on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @07:28PM
(#21209319)
I was also thinking about this. We manufacture more in dollar amounts but I'm curious if that translates into quantity amounts. Higher tech manufacturing like chips instead of nuts and bolts, beams, industrial equipment, etc.
I have to agree with you. The article is fatally flawed unless it can address these issues you mention. I'm surprised the readers here didn't catch it but I suppose they were busy discussing how quantities are priced at the supermarket.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_pro...
[2] https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/data/browser/#/?vs=IN...