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Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by reaperducer on Monday October 07, 2019 @03:36PM (#21185069)
Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported...

I believe the applicable phrase here is "courage of your convictions."

I've been fired twice for refusing to do things that I thought were unethical. Neither time did I have a safety net ready. But my life still continued.

A few years ago I stood up to a middle manager over privacy issues in a feature request. It went far enough to get HR and the legal department involved. It took half a year, but I won.

Bully managers count on people being afraid to lose their jobs. If more people stood up to them, they'd be afraid to make stupid requests in the first place.

Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by munchbunny on Monday October 07, 2019 @04:13PM (#21185452)
Neither time did I have a safety net ready. But my life still continued.

Did you mean safety net as in another job lined up or substantial personal savings? Having a safety net generally means that your situation might be tough but you're okay if you quit/lose your job.

Getting deported because of your H1B would be an example of "doesn't have a safety net". The definition has gray area (such as if your family in your birth country is rich), but as a rule of thumb if deportation is the likely outcome, then you don't have a safety net.

IF you are an immigrant family, this is a trolley problem. Regardless of the courage of your convictions, you are making a choice for not just yourself, but your spouse and kids. It's not purely your own choice.

Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by reaperducer on Monday October 07, 2019 @04:24PM (#21185556)
Did you mean safety net as in another job lined up or substantial personal savings?

I had neither. I took menial temp jobs and short-term manual labor jobs for a while until I could get something full-time in my field. Took about six months the first time, and nine months the second time.

Getting deported because of your H1B would be an example of "doesn't have a safety net".

Is it? It's not like if you lose your job when you're on an H1B they send you to the suicide booth. You just end up back in your old country, but with a much better resume. Yes, life is harder than it was in the United States, but you start again.

That's what people do — they get back up when they're knocked down. I've done it four times now. Losing an H1B is not the end of someone's life.

Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by munchbunny on Monday October 07, 2019 @06:21PM (#21186607)
Is it? It's not like if you lose your job when you're on an H1B they send you to the suicide booth. You just end up back in your old country, but with a much better resume. Yes, life is harder than it was in the United States, but you start again.

Well, depends on what you're going back to. Say it's China, and you morally disagree with a lot more of the Chinese tech industry's politics than you do the US's. Is it worth taking the one particular stand here to lose the long game?

Obviously I'm specifically crafting counterexamples, but the point I'm trying to get across is that it's not purely a matter of courage of conviction.

In your case, good for you - you went further than most would. I would not have held that particular line. If that was the choice I would have to make, I would start to look for a new job at that moment, not to quit.

Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by mav3rick on Monday October 07, 2019 @04:57PM (#21185862)
Reeking of privilege here. "I got born in a developed country, life goes on ".
Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by joosters on Monday October 07, 2019 @04:44PM (#21185769)
So you were lucky. Not everyone will have the same luck.
Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by DangitBobby on Monday October 07, 2019 @05:03PM (#21185911)
Many people talk big game about morals and ethics, but when the chips are down, they will happily forget all that if they have to sacrifice even the smallest amount of comfort. Good for you. Seriously.
Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by damnyou on Monday October 07, 2019 @06:12PM (#21186532)
It is not obviously better to value ethics over family and community. I certainly wouldn't blame someone for putting their family's wellbeing (deportation can be traumatic) over quitting a place that's doing unethical things.
Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by damnyou on Monday October 07, 2019 @04:46PM (#21185784)
You might be a gay immigrant from a country that oppresses gay people. You might have a partner here, or friends, or family, or community.

Bring forced to move to a different community is always bad. The fact that states often force you to do it is a big reason I am an anarchist.

Re:Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong by Jweb_Guru on Monday October 07, 2019 @04:01PM (#21185327)
You say you didn't have "a safety net." What was your actual situation? For example, were you liable to be deported if you quit your job?