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Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by mcv on Saturday October 05, 2019 @04:00AM (#21164319)
The primary thing that strikes me about that photo is how far apart the tram rails are. What's the space between the trams meant to be used for? Not cars, I assume, as that would slow the trams. It also doesn't look like a comfortable place for bikes. In fact, where are bikes even supposed to go on this street?

And if you pay attention to the car in the distance, you see that trams and cars are mixed in that direction; they're only separated in the direction away from the camera. Separating trams and cars completely might do traffic a lot of good here.

So it's not entirely clear to me what this street is supposed to be a good example of. Cars and trams separated in one direction, but not in the other (admittedly much less busy direction, at least at this moment). No space for bikes. It's not as punitive for cars as the article suggests, nor as great for trams as the article suggests. I guess it's okay for pedestrians.

The message of the article is certainly good: when it's crowded you need to invest in more efficient forms of transportation than cars. But that top photo is a poor example of that.

Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by felber on Saturday October 05, 2019 @04:23AM (#21164388)
> The primary thing that strikes me about that photo is how far apart the tram rails are.

This image was taken right before the tram station, with no context at all. There is so much space wasted to allow the passengers to safely get off the tram without getting hit by cars (see 3rd picture to see how people get of the tram). This is done because they cannot move the buildings.

In the 2nd picture you can see how the tram continues and how the tram lines move together to allow for a |CAR|TRAM|TRAM|CAR| street.

> It also doesn't look like a comfortable place for bikes.

It is not, you drive in the middle of the street there to prevent cars from dangerously overtaking you.

> Cars and trams separated in one direction, but not in the other

Its only for a very short section

> I guess it's okay for pedestrians.

Sometimes you are faster walking up there than cars drive.

Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by rmk2 on Saturday October 05, 2019 @07:42AM (#21164988)
> It also doesn't look like a comfortable place for bikes. In fact, where are bikes even supposed to go on this street?

Another issue for cyclists is the permanent danger of getting your wheels in the rails, which means you are likely to either come to a sudden stop or, worse, come off your bike. There were experiments with "self-sealing" tram tracks that would lessen these risks, but no real solution exists quite yet, as far as I am aware.

Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by mcv on Saturday October 05, 2019 @03:39PM (#21167478)
It's a mistake everybody makes once, and then you learn to take tram rails at a sufficient angle. That's been my experience in Amsterdam. Also, when it's wet, there's the possibility of your rear wheel slipping on the tram rail if the angle is too small.
Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by microtherion on Saturday October 05, 2019 @03:11PM (#21167334)
> The primary thing that strikes me about that photo is how far apart the tram rails are.

It's an anomaly on that street. The older building on the left edge of the picture protrudes further in than its neighbors, so at that spot, you could not fit two tram rails, two lanes of traffic, and reasonable sidewalks.

So instead, for a few meters, cars and trams share a lane, the sidewalks get wider, and pedestrians don't have to cross a lane to get into the tram.

You can see side by side pictures here: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/taz/bauen/universi... (the new layout is very recent, and not yet visible on any satellite maps).

Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by wereHamster on Saturday October 05, 2019 @04:22AM (#21164383)
Can't find the exact location on google maps. But my guess is that there is a tram stop right next to where the person is standing. The fact that the tram blocks the cars is a good thing because it lets people get out without having to worry about getting run over by cars. This would be just one of many ways how tram stops are laid out along the streets. There are many factors that decide how they are built. Perhaps there was not enough space to construct a tram stop, two roads, and two tracks at the same location.
Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by Faark on Saturday October 05, 2019 @11:25AM (#21166035)
Found it on maps [0] (well 50m down the road, looking at the camera pos of the article), but it looks totally different. Way more conventional with both tram tracks in the middle of the road and cars outside. StreetView is dated 2014. I wonder when this picture is from.

[0] https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3838561,8.5483138,3a,75y,188...

Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by mcv on Saturday October 05, 2019 @04:30AM (#21164405)
In Amsterdam, trams stops have a platform for people to get on and off. Is that not a thing in other cities?

Also, if the tram stops cars, then cars also stop the tram, which means delays when car traffic is stuck.

Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by zepearl on Saturday October 05, 2019 @10:52AM (#21165832)
> In Amsterdam, trams stops have a platform for people to get on and off. Is that not a thing in other cities?

Almost everywhere platforms in Zurich, but with very few exceptions.

> Also, if the tram stops cars, then cars also stop the tram, which means delays when car traffic is stuck.

Trams in Zurich steer the traffic lights (TF) => when a tram nears an intersection the TF will switch to let it pass and when it nears a section of road which is shared with cars that occupy it, the TF in front of the cars will let cars in front of the tram pass to free that section of street / lane so that the tram can pass as well.

Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by mcv on Saturday October 05, 2019 @03:41PM (#21167487)
Jams can be caused by more than just traffic lights, though. Control of traffic lights is not going to solve everything.
Re:A Swiss Lesson in Enlightened Street Design by zepearl on Friday October 11, 2019 @10:08PM (#21230129)
I did not write about the cause(s) of traffic jams nor about controlling traffic lights to solve anything. My post was about "trams", not cars.