The prosperous countries that de-industrialised in the early 80s still have regions that are suffering the after effects. Often still have lack of opportunity, unemployment and poverty far in excess of the national average. Which discourages new businesses locating in the region, which perpetuates...

The former Soviet bloc countries were starting from near bankruptcy, and extreme neglect over a far longer period. They may have developed pockets of wealth, maybe much more development in the capital. The picture across the whole country will be much more mixed.

Without focused development spending and redistribution, training, encouraging business etc, it takes generations to play out.

Not by a long shot. The problem is that the poverty and corruption that the destabilization creates pervades the entire culture, and it's very hard to move away from that especially when everyone who hates corruption just emigrates away.

We have the same problems in Greece (though probably not to that degree). Everything is slow, inefficient, there's lots of corruption and everyone is looking out for themselves because nobody else will look out for them, and anyone who hates this culture just leaves. This makes it extremely hard to change anything, and things improve at glacial rates.

Who in the hell actually hates Greek culture? It's the best part about Greece! No re malaka, we just leave for the money and jobs, but we would all come back if we could have the same economic opportunity and environment. A true Greek loves their country and hurts to see what it has become, and would do anything to see it prosper, even with all the bad, Greeks have been able to consistently maintain the separation between its people and the corruption that is in power.

You don't? You like people not giving a shit and parking in disabled spots/ramps, double-parking everywhere, civil services closing at noon because they have "work to do", employers paying employees starvation wages because it saves them a euro, everyone evading taxes because their pocket is more important than schools and hospitals, contractors padding their invoices by 200% to pocket the money from EU investments, etc etc?

I'll venture a guess and say you've never lived abroad?

> A true Greek

How do you even type that without expecting to be linked to Wikipedia?

> You don't? You like people not giving a shit and parking in disabled spots/ramps, double-parking everywhere, civil services closing at noon because they have "work to do", employers paying employees starvation wages because it saves them a euro, everyone evading taxes because their pocket is more important than schools and hospitals, contractors padding their invoices by 200% to pocket the money from EU investments, etc etc?

So basically just like everywhere else in the world. You ever been to a Walmart parking lot? Or a DMV?

Sounds like maybe you are the one who has never lived anywhere else. This is called fallen human nature, and it is everywhere.

> So basically just like everywhere else in the world.

> You ever been to a Walmart parking lot? Or a DMV?

Have you? Because we visited very different places, if so. Nobody in the US dares to roll past a stop sign, let alone double-park. Merely the fact that you've said this makes me doubt you've ever even been to the US.

>So basically just like everywhere else in the world. You ever been to a Walmart parking lot? Or a DMV?

Oh wow. You really do come across as not having left wherever you live. Let me explain:

I didn't always live in N America. I have quite a few friends from those times who've only lived in poor and/or corrupt countries. And the only people who say "it's like that everywhere!" are them. I've known multiple people who've visited Western Europe/US and they said "I would never have believed that people could park and drive in such a civil manner"[1], which is effectively what you are saying.

As for Walmart/DMV: I've never seen anyone double park in any large Walmart-like store. Once at a DMV years ago someone parked improperly. The DMV promptly got traffic police to give him a ticket, and announced it loudly so everyone sitting there could hear it: "Congratulations! The driver of vehicle X with license plate Y has just gotten a parking ticket!"

I have seen double parking in apartment complexes. It's a risky game, though. Probably over half the population isn't going to wait to sort things out - they are going to call the towing trucks immediately. I had a car towed for parking in my spot, and someone had my car towed when I parked in their spot.

[1] Even though it's not that great in parts of the US, it's an order of magnitude more than where they've lived. Another comment: "What is it about Americans that even when the parking lot is empty, they still park between the lines?"

Even in prosperous Germany, the formerly communist East is well behind the capitalist West. One would assume for a nation with less means the problems would be more pronounced.

> Even in prosperous Germany, the formerly communist East is well behind the capitalist West.

That's "thanks" to the Treuhand scandal. West Germany essentially bled East Germany dry - brains, infrastructure, everything.

East Germany perfectly shows what happens when all young people who can flee - the only ones remaining will be conservatives and outright Nazis.

Yes, which bears remarkable resemblance to the Bulgarian situation such that 30 years isn't going to allow for anyone to recover.

And if you believe the Treuhand situation is the start and end of East German problems you are being overly reductionist, Herr Antifa.

No name-calling or political flamebait in HN comments, please.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If Poland can serve as an example it's enough to become enamoured and then disillusioned by neoliberalism at least.

Prosperity is definitely there, but so is inequality, which appears to go hand in hand with capitalism.

We're still at least a generation behind the west, but throughout the years some western economies slowed down so much that in say, 20 years, we may be considered a "poor first-world country" like Greece, Portugal, Italy.