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Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by joe_the_user on Sunday January 16, 2011 @09:21PM (#2110973)
Can I respectfully disagree?

I think that it is important to make software engineering a codified, professional field.

It is not an advantage to have programming be a field where the bragging rights go to those who put together a D&D weather generator in a true Mini-computer in Middle School.

Rather, it is much better to have software engineering be something you can enter in college if you a good mastery of abstract thinking.

I would further mention that it helps programming as a professional if a good programmer is a generalist who knows how to get any required details. The process of becoming a generalist is entirely possible if you enter the software engineering field in college. Essentially, the point is for a person learn good process and let the rest take of itself.

Oppositely, if programmers are merely hackers, geeks or idiot-savants, who accumulate massive amounts of details concerning systems, languages and libraries in a near-autistic fashion, then not only will programming remain a ghetto but it will be a poorly paid, miserably ghetto.

Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by Locke1689 on Sunday January 16, 2011 @10:04PM (#2111060)
It is not an advantage to have programming be a field where the bragging rights go to those who put together a D&D weather generator in a true Mini-computer in Middle School.

Careful, this could be similar to saying that it's not advantageous to have mathematics be a field where people who prove non-trivial theorems in high school do better in university courses.

Some people have prior background or a special talent and that's not a bad thing. It's just important that this is also not required to succeed in the given field.

Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by zb on Sunday January 16, 2011 @10:34PM (#2111105)
I think that it is important to make software engineering a codified, professional field.

I personally couldn't disagree more, but luckily in this case there is no need to speculate since we have an almost perfect natural experiment available. Virtually all of the other branches of engineering - including the ones which you're presumably basing this idea on - have exactly the same gender imbalance issues as software engineering.

Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by jarek on Sunday January 16, 2011 @11:34PM (#2111209)
Yes and no. In Canada, software engineering is an accredited, 'professional' program and discipline; that doesn't seem to have helped gender ratios within software much for now, but nevertheless it's outpaced by stereotypically dirty and male disciplines like civil and chemical engineering.

Sample from one institution: http://web.archive.org/web/20080611075012/http://www.eng.uwa.... Class sizes are around 80-100 except for environmental and geological which are half to third of that.

Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by wyclif on Sunday January 16, 2011 @11:44PM (#2111230)
stereotypically dirty and male disciplines like civil and chemical engineering

I spent 10 years as a land surveyor and GIS cartographer, and during that entire time I met one (!) woman surveyor. CE is notorious for this.

Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by neutronicus on Monday January 17, 2011 @09:22AM (#2112200)
At my school civil and environmental engineering were in one department, and most of the girls where there for the "environmental" half - or so my CEE friends said, anyways.
Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by zb on Monday January 17, 2011 @01:29PM (#2112935)
OK, but that link still shows Software and Computer engineering ahead of Mechanical and Electrical engineering.
Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by jarek on Monday January 17, 2011 @02:01PM (#2113021)
True. Clearly professionalization is not the only required step, but the natural experiment doesn't tell you it's not required — hence my "yes and no" reply.
Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by juhygtfghjk on Sunday January 16, 2011 @10:10PM (#2111069)
> software engineering a codified, professional field.

So after getting your degree you can only be a CEng by working for an existing CEng in a company that certifies CEngs.

Sounds like a perfect way of weeding out all those women who do pick a CS degree. Unless all traditional big-iron firms are looking to hire more women, and all 60-something male senior engineers are really clamoring for more women to certify ?

Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by jarek on Sunday January 16, 2011 @11:42PM (#2111228)
That's the way it works for, say, civil engineering, and there's more women in civil engineering -- or at least studying and graduating it -- than in software engineering.

It would be rare for a new engineering grad to work under a 60-year-old engineer, typically the supervisors are much younger.

Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by philwelch on Monday January 17, 2011 @04:08AM (#2111642)
Another big difference is that lots of civil engineers are employed in the public sector, which (for various reasons) tends to employ more women than the private sector. The same correlation is seen in EE's, where there's a lot more women in power engineering than in other fields. Unless you can create tons of public sector software engineering jobs (which sounds worse than dreadful to be honest) you're not likely to replicate that.
Re:My Experiences as a Female Software Engineer by jarek on Monday January 17, 2011 @02:19PM (#2113073)
Why do you think more public sector software engineering jobs would be dreadful?

Perhaps women are attracted to public sector-type jobs, for some values of "public sector type", rather than a specific engineering discipline. How will that change the gender ratios question?