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Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by lazyguy2 on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:20AM (#21071597)
All the 'big names' companies like 'Juul' and 'Blu' are heavily invested in by 'Big Tobacco'. These are the companies you see in gas stations and convenience stores across the America.

But these big companies can't compete with all the Vape Shops that are insanely popular and are everywhere.

This is why there is just a big hubbub over regulation and the deaths over black market Marijuana cartridges. These massive corporations can afford to deal with things like FDA certification of flavors and such things.

Were as the small companies, that make up the bulk of the vape market, cannot. So they will get pushed out of the market and 'big tobacco' will be the only ones that are allowed to sell in the USA. They really don't care if they have bad names and are used as targets by the regulators when they are going to be the only ones allowed to sell to the public.

Governments are going along with this because tobacco is a massive tax base. They can't regulate small business and internet sales in the same manner they can regulate and tax a small number of massive corporations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

According to 'Lung Cancer Fact Sheet' there was a estimated 154,000 Americans that would of died to lung cancer in 2018. Tobacco smoking contributes to all types of cancer.

This is why Vaping, which should cut these lung cancer rates by over 95%, is one of the most important public health break-throughs in recent memory.

If allowed to continue to exist in the way it is now it should do more to cut down on cancer deaths then billions of dollars in medical research spent in the past 20 years.

People have found that vaping is massively more effective at helping them to quit smoking compared to patches, gum, or any other medical-grade nicotine delivery method. It's extremely cheap, it's effective, and it's safe and has none of the side effects associated with any other type of drug being sold by doctors to help people quit.

And yet you have politicians now scrambling all over each other to flush this miracle down the toilet to protect their tax revenue and help out 'Big Tobacco'.

And when you look close at the facts behind 'vaping deaths' it's pretty obvious that these are related to drug prohibition more then anything else. These are deaths that are massively contributed to by regulation. If people bought those cartridges from gas stations or vape shops they would still be alive, but they couldn't because they were illegal in their states.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by xphilter on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:37AM (#21071775)
"This is why Vaping, which should cut these lung cancer rates by over 95%, is one of the most important public health break-throughs in recent memory."

Not so sure about this. If the recent lung illnesses are tied to vaping, then that really can't be true.

Also, the 154,000 dying of lung cancer would undoubtedly be those who started smoking tobacco decades ago. The overall trend of smoking tobacco is downward. That alone would decrease the future number of lung cancer deaths. Hard to pin that on vaping, which seems to be (even just a few short years after widespread adoption) is leading to sudden cases of lung illnesses/deaths.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by moftz on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:07PM (#21072070)
There needs to be some more information out there as to what specifically is causing this illness. Everyone is quick to lump all vapes together when there are a ton of rumors that the ones making people sick/dead are blackmarket/bootleg THC cartridges from China. For all of these illnesses and deaths to come on so quickly, it seems more like a tainted product than the typical PG/VG/flavoring mixture causing this. We already know smoking kills. It kills way more people every day than have ever died from vaping. If we aren't going to ban cigarettes too, then we need to regulate them both equally. I don't think vape ads on TV are appropriate and Juul employees visiting schools is definitely not good, regardless of whether or not the kids are 18+. They can be used as smoking cessation but they can also just be used as an alternative as compared to patches and gum which are really only good for cessation.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by juped on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @02:08PM (#21073445)
"Rumors" from e.g. the Minnesota department of public health
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by moftz on Thursday September 26, 2019 @08:02AM (#21080122)
I hadn't seen anything official, only people saying it in comments so I didn't want to imply it was a fact.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by basch on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:51AM (#21071927)
and if the recent diseases are caused by an additive, like vitamin e, then the overall panic is disingenuous.

>They say black market operators are using more thickening agents to dilute THC oil because of a crackdown by state authorities that has made the oil scarcer on the black market.

Maybe regulators should be blamed for causing a scummy black market, instead of pointing the finger at "vaping."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/potential-culprits-in-...

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by juped on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @02:07PM (#21073435)
Six or so people, many with pre-existing ailments, died in connection with some kind of contaminated batch of black market THC cartridges.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by rsuelzer on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:31AM (#21071712)
Thank you for this. I have struggled with addiction my whole life and switched to a tank based e-cig seven years ago and have not had a full cigarette since.

I say fill cigarette because I use fruit flavored liquids and it helped me develop an aversion to the taste of Tobacco and smoke. A few years ago I had a few drags of a cigarette at a party and it made me want to throw up.

Not saying what I do is harmless, but it's a major harm reduction for me. I went from having some pretty serious lung issues to being able to do intense cardio workouts for several hours without any problems breathing.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:11PM (#21072106)
When I smoked, I was addicted to (Korean) menthols while normal cigarettes would make me puke. So there is definitely something going on there.

I don’t vape, but if they banned flavored liquids, they better ban menthol cigarettes as well.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by zosterops on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @01:31PM (#21073017)
I believe in the case of NY it was all flavors except menthol that were banned.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @02:04PM (#21073390)
Ya, it is politically too difficult to ban menthol at the moment.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by eurasiantiger on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @06:15PM (#21076180)
Menthol competes for the same enzyme that breaks down nicotine, keeping nicotine active longer. It is also a moderately strong kappa-opioid receptor agonist: vaping too strong menthol liquid can induce extreme dysphoria, anxiety and panic attacks.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by selimthegrim on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @10:14PM (#21077535)
Can you elaborate?
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @10:35PM (#21077635)
Menthols are especially popular with African Americans, which has been a big consideration in not banning them so far.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by selimthegrim on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:02PM (#21077761)
I thought that stereotype was out the door with Billy Dee Williams and Colt 45 ads but OK.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:41AM (#21071816)
The UK picture is the big tobacco brands are everywhere and so ludicrously expensive. Yet barely sell, and don't get much point of sale love from the retailer. They feel like a line their tobacco rep gave them a discount to carry, yes just about everywhere. £1-£1.50 for 10ml in a vape shop, £1 in the Poundshop and discounters, £4-£5 in a corner shop or petrol station. You can wait out vaping 100x easier than waiting out needing a smoke. Well I always could. Seemed like there was something "extra" in the tobacco more addictive than the nicotine.

The few places that were moving some have mostly started selling independent vaping brands. My local petrol station now carries a couple. Still expensive, but "sanely" expensive.

With the exception of Juul, big tobacco appears to be failing badly at vaping.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by eurasiantiger on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @06:18PM (#21076204)
You’re not wrong about there being something ”extra” in tobacco, and it’s not being talked about publicly.

See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @07:51PM (#21076824)
Interesting. Not come across that before, but it gels with my experience. I found it far easier quitting vaping than switching tobacco to vapes, nor had a huge issue pausing vaping for a day or two.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:12PM (#21072124)
The tar and burning sensation were probably just as important as nicotine in building an addiction. This is why nicotine gum doesn’t do it for many people, and why vaping is more effective for smoking cessation (the steam effect brings back some of the burning tar feel, while you have something to hold...).
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:41PM (#21072473)
Yeah, I'm sure that's a good part of it. There was still a sense of cigarettes "giving a little more" - hard to describe as I really couldn't say what, the couple of times I had a smoke after starting vaping in earnest.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:48PM (#21072550)
Vaping didn’t work for me when I tried quitting the first time, but that was the early days. I eventually just went cold turkey, but that took a lot of longer than I would have liked.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by maxerickson on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:16PM (#21072166)
States tend to increase per pack taxes because of the reduction in smoking. They don't engage in revenue maximization.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by tomnipotent on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:36AM (#21071767)
> Were as the small companies, that make up the bulk of the vape market, cannot

Juul owns 70% of the vape market.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by givinguflac on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:08PM (#21072080)
The parent comment is referring to the explosion of standalone vape shops that sell a wide variety of products. Not a reference to Juul being a small company. This is the biggest fail in all of this, there have been a huge number of successful shops opening up that are all but put out of business by these bans.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:09PM (#21072088)
70% of a cherry picked subset of the market that excludes vape shops and online.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by bredren on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:31AM (#21071724)
From previous discussions here, I took that Juul juice is formulated differently than other vaping juices, with a much higher nicotine amount.

I agree vaping can help stop cigarette use, but I am not sure they are all equally good at this.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:46AM (#21071862)
As an ex smoker and now ex vaper, who wouldn't have quit cigs without vaping, Juul definitely feels to be something apart. Part of the problem, not the solution.

Their USP seems to be delivering a much higher "hit" more quickly, trying to give a hit like your first ever cigarette. Never tried one and don't intend to so have no clue how true this is, but it was definitely part of the buzz around them.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by basch on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @03:40PM (#21074484)
juul is a nicotine salt instead of freebase nicotine, making it unique among market offerings.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @07:49PM (#21076812)
Well some regular vape mods can use nicotine salts, so I don't see what's unique. Never tried these so I have no idea why that's different as I said. Just what I picked up from the buzz around their launch about the "faster better hit".
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by ajurna on Thursday September 26, 2019 @04:30AM (#21079215)
what's unique is that juul goes at 50mg of nic, where most small operators would stop at 20mg. with step downs all the way to 0mg. juul only offers 50mg. (20mg in Europe as that is the legal max)
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by Alex3917 on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:26AM (#21071660)
> This is why Vaping, which should cut these lung cancer rates by over 95%, is one of the most important public health break-throughs in recent memory.

I mean smoking shouldn't really cause cancer to begin with. It really depends on how much radioactive material is in ecigs, which afaik we don't know yet.

Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by ceejayoz on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:34AM (#21071751)
Radioactivity is not the driver of lung cancer in cigarettes.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by Alex3917 on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:51PM (#21072586)
So you're saying the EPA and CDC are making it up?
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by ceejayoz on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:56PM (#21072645)
No, I'm saying it's well known that carcinogenic compounds like tar are what causes the lung cancer. It's not radioactivity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_(tobacco_residue)
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by astrodust on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @01:05PM (#21072758)
The radioactive materials are just a bonus you get for free.
Re:Juul Labs CEO to Step Down by tozeur on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:34AM (#21071756)
Was that sarcasm?