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Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by toast0 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @06:27PM (#21065303)
CNG for consumer vehicles is really inconvenient. CNG tanks take a lot more volume than gasoline tanks, tanks are supposed to be inspected every 3 years, and they expire 20-30 years after manufacture (and the tanks may have been manufactured much earlier than your vehicle). Some fuel stations (notably, PG&E's) require proof of recent inspection. And, replacing the tanks when they expire isn't economically feasible, leaving you with a lump of coal.

Non-obviously, only about half of the price of filling up is for the natural gas, the other half is electricity cost to compress it to pressures way beyond the pipeline pressure. This makes home based filling impractical, and CNG filling stations are fairly sparse.

Source: In 2017, I _really_ wanted to get a CNG Crown Vic/Town Car for HOV access, part of which was planning for a purchase in Los Angeles and driving to the Bay Area, refueling on the way; with the limited range, and without access to PG&E stations, I'd need to go up the coast, because I wouldn't make it on the 5.

Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by xyzzyz on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @08:23PM (#21066258)
It's all matter of regulatory climate. In Poland, there are millions of cars driving on LPG every day. Most gas stations offer LPG in addition to gas and diesel fuel. Stations don't require any proof of inspection, and moreover most of them are self-serve. There are plenty of shops that will retrofit any car (even diesels!) for LPG for about $500-1000. This is just a mundane, everyday thing.

I owned an LPG-fueled car and it was really no different than gas-fueled one, other than more frequent need for refuel (I had a small tank installed where the spare tire used to be, and it only had around 100 miles of range).

Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by xxpor on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @11:04PM (#21067200)
LPG != NG. Natural Gas has to be stored as a gas, and has less energy than propane, so NG tanks have to be much larger.
Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by xyzzyz on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @02:12AM (#21068144)
Natural gas contains propane as one of it components, so it can be filtered out. You can also refine shorter chains of hydrocarbons in natural gas to make propane.
Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by xxpor on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @11:46AM (#21071863)
Is that cost effective though?
Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by xyzzyz on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @02:03PM (#21073381)
LPG is used in Poland because it's significantly cheaper than gasoline, so... yes?
Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by m0zg on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @07:51PM (#21066023)
What you're describing are combined side effects of the lack of demand, and the current regulatory climate, which is particularly ridiculous in your state.

In the 90's (!) much of the taxi fleet (and a good number of trucks) in Moscow, Russia was powered by CNG. Everything worked fine, in spite of a much lower level of technological advancement. If gasoline were to permanently go to $6+/gal, and the industry was deregulated a little, you'd see CNG retrofits that cost sub $1K and last for the lifetime of the car in basically no time at all. All the tech has been in place for decades, it's just a matter of demand now.

Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by cat199 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @07:53PM (#21066038)
don't have an opinion either way, but:

> tanks are supposed to be inspected every 3 years, and they expire 20-30 years after manufacture (and the tanks may have been manufactured much earlier than your vehicle). Some fuel stations (notably, PG&E's) require proof of recent inspection. And, replacing the tanks when they expire isn't economically feasible, leaving you with a lump of coal.

wouldn't all of these problems be addressed more adequately by a larger potential customer base & supporting infrastructure? (e.g. annual car inspection==tank inspection, cost decreasing due to bigger market, etc)

Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by sokoloff on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @10:49PM (#21067118)
The tank inspection is not a quick visual inspection. It’s take it out, empty it, fill and pressurize with water in a protective enclosure, measure the expansion strain, drain, dry, stamp the inspection date, reinstall, purge, and refill.
Re:The Saudis Are Lying About Their Oil Production? by cat199 on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @02:14PM (#21073525)
did not know this.

broader point still stands I think - if this was required of everyone every year, a secondary market like propane tanks for backyard grills, etc would probably emerge or it would be part of mfg warranties.

side note: no, I don't think market solves everything.