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Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by wallace_f on Monday September 23, 2019 @11:49PM (#21056325)
Where can adults living with this kind of thing, like extreme bullying or psychopathy, get help moving on to better their lives?
Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by DoreenMichele on Monday September 23, 2019 @11:52PM (#21056346)
I do what I can to share useful information. In addition to to speaking out on HN, I blog about things like homelessness and LGBTQ issues.

If you wish, I could direct you to some of my writing. Beyond that, I don't personally know. "The System" tends to not have good answers.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by wallace_f on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:13AM (#21056467)
Personally, if anyone cares, the most important thing someone like me needs eyes on them to keep accountability against abuse. Basically I need help defending my right to peace, civil rights.

Empowerment, opportunity come second, I think.

I don't know much about the system. I'm not interested or in-need of explicit welfare or handouts, and everything else was a massive waste of time.

Hate and abuse, tyranny, bullying, whatever you call it I think can happen to anyone, or any group, but it usually happens to people who were weak, or who experienced it before. Once it happens more than once you become such a target for opportunists, and pariah for everyone else who is "just following their self-interest."

I honestly don't even know what the best thing to do is.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by travisjungroth on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:26AM (#21056838)
I don’t know of any catch all resource. Is this something going on right now, or in your past? If it’s right now, the focus will be on separating yourself from the problem. If it’s the past, then that’s recovery. If you send me an email (my last name at gmail) I could point you to some things that helped me and could apply to your situation.
Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by wallace_f on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @03:42AM (#21057506)
It is hard to explain everything, but it started when I was a teenager and talked to people at my school about abuse at home. My father hired a team of lawyers after that and they cut a deal with child services which had me shipped off into the Troubled Teen Industry. There I experienced the start of this pattern of abuse and a cult of personality of put downs to me started. It sounds crazy, but I had some authorities there just telling me put downs all the time, like it was a scene from a movie about certain math prodigy at Harvard.

When I was 18 I was taken out of there and then just homeless. By my mid-20s I had a lot of problems with extreme bullying again and unexplainable negativity towards me, but after a short stint with homelessness again I moved to a new city, applied for some jobs and got up to a about 80-90k compensation within a year there. Then I started having problems again with stalking and apparent intent to harm me.

This probably reads as unreal, unbelievable. If I didn't know better and read someone write this on the internet, I'd think it reads like the person has paranoid delusions, mental illness.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by travisjungroth on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @10:53AM (#21060824)
Thank you for sharing. To me, every part of your story sounds completely believable.

CPS has limited resources and a lawyered up parent can beat them. I’ve heard of institutions based on abuse like you described. Someone who went through what you did would likely end up homeless, but then there’s a chance they can beat that and get a good paying job. And then it’s a well known phenomenon that people who have been victimized at some point in their life are more likely to experience it again, later.

I don’t know you past your comments, but nothing I read sounds like paranoid delusions or mental illness.

I’m not a therapist, but I suggest you talk to one. I’m guessing you have health insurance with your good job. They wouldn’t have to give you a severe diagnoses to have it covered. I don’t know you, but maybe a professional would find you to be dealing with Adjustment Disorder or Anxiety. A professional therapist could be the trusted advocate that you need.

My caution is to only go with a licensed therapist, and one that gives you a good gut feeling. Be 100% prepared to walk away if this person starts acting like the abusers in your life. And avoid unlicensed people like “life coaches”. Some of them are great, but I also think they have a higher rate of people who just enjoy having power over other people, and that’s the last thing you need.

I hope this helps.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by wallace_f on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @02:01PM (#21073357)
Thanks for responding, but I quit my job a several years ago and even left the country so I think this is not easy to come by.
Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by schwurb on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @07:47AM (#21058919)
Hey there! I am sorry for what you have been through so far. Since I am to go soon, I will keep it short:

1) I heavily suggest going into counceling. The change of behaviour and self concept needed might be too much to manage on your own.

2) It is a unfortunate, but well-researched phenomenon that perpetuators go for a certain type of personality that expresses itself by way of talking an non-verbal communication. There is also such a thing as bad, bad luck, but social dynamics also play a role. This is an area where you can likely improve aswell: Recognizing your feelings, others feeling and actions, and what is okay and not okay for you,

Gotta go now, all the best tho! Your problems seem treatable to me, but it might take time. You can do this.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by wallace_f on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @01:56PM (#21073312)
I don't know how to say this without it coming across the wrong way, but if we look back up the thread the topic was about victims having difficult social circumstances, or even just unsolvable, abusive ones.

I always see this pattern when talking about tyranny and its victims. When it is talked about in an abstracted sense (meaning you are distanced from the situation by time or place), it is almost always in the above context of toxic environments. But when it is addressed directly, the focus turns to the victim and trying to identify what is wrong with them, not with the group.

I know it is a long shot but I am really eager to document the extreme abusiveness and kind of life-ruining tyranny I've experienced. I want to raise awareness and stop this from happening to anyone else.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by schwurb on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @06:45PM (#21076408)
> But when it is addressed directly, the focus turns to the victim and trying to identify what is wrong with them, not with the group.

This is because it is the only effective way to change anything. The victim has to recognize their situation, develop the will to escape / change it, and then do concrete steps. Of course, not alone. You are not guilty of anything, but it is still your responsability to change your life if you want it. It is hard and shitty, but nobody will change because you feel shitty.

It is the same as with every other difficult situation. I could stagnate my whole life, complaining about nobody helped me when I first voiced suicidal thoughts at age 10. I was fucking hard and many people failed me, including me. I did not have a childhood. I see every right to complain and blame others. But who will this help? No one. I had to change something. Because my environment is the last thing that will change.

> I want to raise awareness and stop this from happening to anyone else.

I will be blunt: This is not an effective way of achieving this goal. Much more effective would be to 1) get help (helps you to tackle those problems in your environment) and 2) join an organization that does deal with bullying (they likely know how to reach more people more effectively).

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by wallace_f on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @10:12PM (#21077520)
>I will be blunt

Are you sure?

Maybe your ideas would do better in my situation, maybe they'd fare worse?

Whenever we hear about bad history, such as what happened in Nazi Germany, religious persecutions, or even witch trials, everyone says they'd help them. My story is different mostly in the sense that whoever is trying to kill me or inflict ill will to me hasn't succeeded yet, and that my tyranny is not part of a collective, it is against an individual.

I don't want to be combative for its own sake. What I mean is to get at is I don't really know how much time to put into this advice. Help from whom? What organization?

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by philpem on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @09:25AM (#21059863)
I'd be very interested in some research backing up (2). Not because I don't believe you (actually I very much do). More that I'm curious and want to find out more about this phenomena.
Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by schwurb on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:33PM (#21062607)
Sure thing! In all honesty, that was something that I heart from my mother. (She works in psychology, but she is not an academic. So I should probably retract the "well" in "well-researched") But a quick research turned up these two sources:

General info about Victims, Bullies, Victim-Bullies

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2010/07/bully-victim

More on point: In-depth about who is more likely to become a victim

http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/98783/E9...

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by DoreenMichele on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:28PM (#21062526)
I haven't read these thoroughly, but hopefully it's a place to start. I searched for "picking victims study." That seemed to come up with some hits. A search for "group dynamics abuse" was less helpful.

Targets who displayed vulnerable body language were more likely to report past histories of victimization, and psychopaths identified these individuals as being more vulnerable to future victimization.

https://www.workplacebullying.org/gait/

What Do Sexual Predators Look For When Grooming Victims?

https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/jeffrey-epstein-what-do-se...

Short Circuiting the Victim Selection Process

http://www.protectivestrategies.com/victim-selection.html

Marked for Mayhem

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200901/marked-ma...

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by DoreenMichele on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @11:43AM (#21061373)
This probably reads as unreal, unbelievable.

No, it doesn't.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by a3n on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:29AM (#21056569)
A really good first step can be your doctor, who can lay out options and resources. Think of them as a knowledgeable first responder.

It worked for me.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by wallace_f on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:44AM (#21056643)
Don't have a doctor. What kind of things were they able to suggest which was helpful?
Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by jezclaremurugan on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @06:37AM (#21058441)
May not be a popular advice - but try a church. If you have reservations about religion you can let them know, but more often than not - there is a welcoming community and in local church groups you'd find a bunch of folks who are willing to go an extra mile for someone else and most of them do really care.

Obvious disclaimer - do watch out that they do not end up exploiting your vulnerabilities - there are known cases where that unfortunately happens as predators are everywhere.

Re:Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motel... by a3n on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @10:41AM (#21060682)
Everyone's depression is their own, and what works for one may not work for another. And, what doesn't work for one may yet work for another.

So the specific things that worked (and didn't work) for me may be different for you. Be open minded and critical, and don't be surprised if you have to try a few things.

That said, the first thing that helped was the validation that came from talking to someone that, in my mind at least, had some broad knowledge of the subject, and knew enough to listen critically, to see whether I was in immediate crisis (I was).

The two things we tried first are often the two "go to's", an anti depressant (citalopram, an SSRI) and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy

Different categories of anti depressants work through different mechanisms. I got lucky, my ssri began to work almost immediately; usually it takes a couple weeks to see any effect, if any, good or bad.

I didn't fare well with CBT, I think because I'm too cynical, and I could "see the magic trick" that I was trying to play on myself. Which is the wrong way to think of it, but I couldn't help it. So I stopped that. But it has helped lots of people.

I'm not saying these two things are what will help you. But you asked.

The doc also suggested vitamins D, which I still take, and B something, which I stopped because it makes my pee smell really bad.

He also prescribed an anti anxiety drug for the immediate crisis, which I filled but never used.

And we discussed immediate crisis resources like 911.

My remedies are almost not important. The main thing was that I got validation (lots of self doubt when you're depressed), and the relief and hope that comes from taking action.