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Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by ryandrake on Sunday September 22, 2019 @10:03PM (#21045378)
Yes, unpopular opinion these days, but car owners should really know how to do at least the bare minimum of basic car maintenance. I'm not talking about replacing the suspension or re-building the transmission, but things like changing oil, brake pads, and refilling washer fluid. The very basic basics. Not only does it save you money (who wants to have a mechanic do something for $200 that you can do for $30 + a little time) but knowledge of a tool you use every day is valuable in and of itself.

Wow, -2 in 40 minutes. I knew unpopular but is it that controversial a view??

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by wildrhythms on Sunday September 22, 2019 @10:17PM (#21045445)
I live in an apartment complex and park my car on the premises. I'm not allowed to change my oil on the property due to the landlord's fear of oil left on the parking surface, don't have anywhere to safely store tools or jacks to change a brake pad, and have no where to keep a half-used container of washer fluid outside of my living space (and I'd rather not keep it in my living space).

That said, I know how to do all of these things, I actually service my car and a motorcycle myself despite the apartment complex's "rules", but I think for a lot of car owners they're not in "safe" space to do their own maintenance. There's also the up front cost of buying tools. I think a lot of car owners in similar situations are relegated to taking the car to a shop for simple repairs as a result. Any advice?

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by Sharparam on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:25AM (#21046947)
Here we have self-service maintenance/cleaning places for cars (often at gas stations). So if you don't have your own driveway/garage you can rent some space and have access to tools and a place to do maintenance.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by scarface74 on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:28AM (#21048238)
I’m sure if you find a nice farmer you can also pick up a chicken, manually snap it’s neck (seen it done before, my grandfather had a farm) and cook it yourself...
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by Sharparam on Thursday September 26, 2019 @10:26AM (#21081146)
I was providing an example of what you can do if you want to service your car yourself but don't have the space where you live. Nobody says you have to if you prefer someone else do it for you.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by scarface74 on Sunday September 22, 2019 @11:12PM (#21045646)
There are a lot of things I could save money on, but I make a good living developing software so I can pay other people to fix my car, press my clothes, mow my lawn, etc. I work during the week, money gets deposited in my account so I can enjoy the weekend doing things I want. We even spend extra going to restaurants so we don’t have to cook!
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by ryandrake on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:52AM (#21048922)
I guess I'm just with Heinlein on this one: Specialization is for insects. Interdependence is great if you can [currently] afford it. I sometimes pay someone to do something that I know I can do myself. I consider it a guilty luxury. But what's the plan if you run into hard times? When money stops magically appearing? Stop driving because you don't know how to keep your car functioning? Wear dirty, wrinkled clothing because you can't do laundry? Stop eating because you can't cook?

Being able to transform money into convenience is a great benefit of living in a modern inter-connected society. But it's only great while it lasts, and relying on always having this ability is a risky move. When my parents ran into hard times they raised and slaughtered hogs. When things got better we stopped. I don't think I'd be alive today if they didn't have that know how.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by scarface74 on Monday September 23, 2019 @10:25AM (#21049193)
If I am running into hard times I’m probably unemployed, the little money I save by pressing my own clothes isn’t going to make a dent in my inability to pay our bills - and if I am not working, I won’t be wearing clothes that need pressing.

If the hard time is temporary, that’s what credit is for. If it is systemic, I’ve got bigger fish to fry - downsizing our house, getting job training, moving near a bus line to save money on car insurance, etc.

It’s just like the BS “Latte Factor”. People are not unable to save for retirement because of $6/day Latte. It’s usually because they have high fixed costs relative to their income.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by michaelmrose on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:37AM (#21046705)
80-90% of people earn less
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by scarface74 on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:16AM (#21048153)
The average car is almost 12 years old (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/average-vehicle-age-incre...) and most people aren’t fixing their own car. That means most people can afford the maintenance needed to keep a car on the road.

As many dry cleaners that I see even in the less affluent parts of the city, people are able to afford to do that too.

Most less affluent people who do own their own home (as well as many who could afford it) do cut their own grass.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by lolc on Monday September 23, 2019 @06:14AM (#21047463)
I'm perpetually wondering about this. As I do a lot of maintenance myself (in the house and on my bicycles) and as I derive satisfaction from it I understand what you're saying. It does feel liberating to have agency in these matters!

On the other hand these jobs do take space in my life and in my mind. It is questionable whether we should "force" people to do simple car maintenance. Our society runs on division of labour and everybody places their cutover to experts somewhere else. You say they could benefit a lot from gaining some mechanical understanding of their car's operation. And I feel the same. But they may wonder why they should learn a skill that takes time away from other things important to them.

Sure I may question how they spend their time. But now we've moved away from how knowing basic maintenance is good for you to a more general outlook on life. Watching a tutorial will improve one's future life. But we can't say that watching a car maintenance tutorial will be the right thing. Maybe it's a tutorial on Excel? Which would be more in line with the topic of the article anyway.

So I agree with you in general but not in specifics :-)

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by sneak on Sunday September 22, 2019 @10:37PM (#21045530)
Brake pads are not “the very basics”; they require owning a set of tools.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by ryandrake on Sunday September 22, 2019 @10:47PM (#21045567)
I don't think having a jack stand and a 40x10x10cm toolbox squirreled away in a closet is that big of a hurdle. The tools required for all the examples I mentioned are extremely minimal, and the skills can be picked up by watching 10 minutes of YouTube.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by scarface74 on Sunday September 22, 2019 @11:16PM (#21045664)
Or I can, drop my car off on the way to work, take the shuttle to work, take Uber home, or bring my laptop with me and earn my living doing what I’ve done for 30 years and pay someone else to do it...
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by TeMPOraL on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:14AM (#21046907)
You are a rich person with money to burn and a job that offers you time liquidity. Most people have neither, which is why - and not because of their irrationality - arguments from opportunity cost don't work as well as one would expect.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by scarface74 on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:17AM (#21048165)
Seeing that “most people” are paying someone else to fix their car, that means that most people find a way to pay other people to do it instead of learning how to do it themselves.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by michaelmrose on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:40AM (#21046723)
Nobody is arguing with you about what YOU ought to be doing. I personally disagree with this being presented as good general advice to most people who make a lot less.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by balfirevic on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:07AM (#21047713)
> Nobody is arguing with you about what YOU ought to be doing

Current subthread started with this: "Yes, unpopular opinion these days, but car owners should really know how to do at least the bare minimum of basic car maintenance"

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by michaelmrose on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:33PM (#21052677)
Car owners are a class of people that ranges from people living in said cars to the the hyper rich.

It's probable that Bezos has to give zero fucks beyond what brand he prefers. People living in their car are probably just praying it doesn't break down. In between there is a giant middle ground that composes 80% of the car owning population whose benefit derived from car know how is inversely proportional to their wealth.

Most car owners should learn the basics of how their car works and how it is maintained even if they intend to outsource that labor to others just so they aren't trivially taken advantage of. If we assume that MOST people aren't born into wealth most people could stand to learn the basics during the time when they have more time than money and then they could make productive use of this know how later.

I'm not sure how you can even argue this point.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by scarface74 on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:37PM (#21053330)
It’s called an existence proof. Most people don’t know anything about car repairs, yet they manage to go through life fine letting other people repair their cars.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by michaelmrose on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:44PM (#21054986)
There is an entire industry devoted into turning small regular maintenance tasks into big paydays based entirely on lies to people who don't know anything.

I don't think your existential proof is a good one. It's like proving Cigarettes are OK by noting that billions use and only millions die.