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Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by otterley on Friday September 20, 2019 @12:01PM (#21028156)
Not "everybody" hates Google for it. People who don't understand the security implications inherent in allowing browser extensions that have nearly-unrestricted access to the user's behavior -- even if well-intended -- may hate the Chrome team for it.

But there are those of us who understand why the Chrome team made the decision it did, and are sympathetic. And we're happy that the Chrome team and Apple are of the same mind about this.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by loeg on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:23PM (#21032615)
> People who don't understand the security implications inherent in allowing browser extensions that have nearly-unrestricted access to the user's behavior -- even if well-intended -- may hate the Chrome team for it.

> But there are those of us who understand why the Chrome team made the decision it did, and are sympathetic. And we're happy that the Chrome team and Apple are of the same mind about this.

Hey, you probably didn't mean it this way, but your comment kinda sounds like you're saying everyone who opposes Google's decision is a simpleton who doesn't understand the security implications of browser extensions. That's not true, and more importantly, not especially charitable.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by autoexec on Friday September 20, 2019 @05:40PM (#21031585)
> People who don't understand the security implications inherent in allowing browser extensions that have nearly-unrestricted access to the user's behavior

You can say the exact same thing about any code we run on our devices. We accept that risk or we wouldn't run any software at all. Google isn't worried about our privacy. They take our privacy. They are worried about their profits because that's all any corporation cares about.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by ElFitz on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:01PM (#21032794)
We definitely do not represent the vast majority of users.

Many have no idea these risks even exist, or mostly wrong notions about them.

Pretty sure my parents and grand parents don't even want to know their (probably randomly picked) ad blocker could pick up their credit card number every time they type it in their browser.

How could we hold it against them? Computers to them merely are (sometimes cumbersome and annoying) tools.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by autoexec on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:54PM (#21033394)
If your parents are consistently using ad-blockers they're doing better than most of my family. My mother wouldn't know what a browser extension was let alone how to begin installing one. The totally computer illiterate are at least protected in that sense.
Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by otterley on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:01PM (#21032518)
The question is, whom do you trust, and who bears the greatest consequence of failure? I'll bet my money on Apple over some third-party extension vendor to protect my privacy.

Besides, in the end, it's all about minimization of threats. The existence of one threat is better than the existence of two. Don't let perfection be the enemy of the "good enough."

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by autoexec on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:30PM (#21032646)
> The question is, whom do you trust, and who bears the greatest consequence of failure?

I'm going to trust uBlock Origin because it is free open source software and I can see everything they are doing with my data. Apple on the other hand forbids reverse engineering safari (trying to understand what it does and how it works).

Once you're a part of the apple eco-system apple could theoretically (and to be clear we're talking about purely theoretical privacy risks in all cases) access your browsing history and also tie that directly to your name, address, credit card/bank account, GPS coordinates, etc.

Putting your privacy in the hands of a company that has so much of your data already is naturally more risky than compartmentalizing. If hackers somehow compromise my browser extension they get access to my browsing history on one device until I notice and correct the problem. If a hacker somehow compromises Apple they could get access to much much more. For all their care and resources Apple is not immune from attacks either. Safari has had a ton of vulnerabilities exposed just this year so far.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by otterley on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:36PM (#21032680)
It's not uBlock Origin they're concerned about, though - it's all the other random extensions out there that could use the same capabilities for evil instead of good.
Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by autoexec on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:54PM (#21032754)
Ultimately the freedom to decide what code a person runs on their own hardware has to be left up to the user. The users who install every random extension they see are the same ones who download every app and click on every link in the spam they get. You can't protect users from themselves, but you can empower them to better protect themselves.

Downloading a sketchy browser extension takes deliberate action on the part of the user. Just loading CNN.com can (and has) caused computers to become infected automatically because of ads. Limiting the ability to block ads is not protecting anyone.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by otterley on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:57PM (#21032766)
That argument was lost 11 years ago when the iPhone came out, and yet, people still can't get enough of them.
Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by LaGrange on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:23PM (#21030269)
> Not "everybody" hates Google for it. People who don't understand the security implications inherent in allowing browser extensions that have nearly-unrestricted access to the user's behavior -- even if well-intended -- may hate the Chrome team for it.

...this is a fantastic argument for disallowing installation of custom browsers. I do hope y'all like IE and/or Safari.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by dmix on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:31PM (#21029190)
Sounds like Google hasn't communicated these technical changes nor their intentions very clearly at all. Just judging how there's multiple people saying different things in this thread for both.
Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by bduerst on Friday September 20, 2019 @06:39PM (#21032027)
It's clickbait fodder. Construing the manifest privacy changes as Google is blocking ad blockers is better clickbait than saying Apple safari is doing the same thing.

It's similar to when the internet blew up about Google's project dragonfly, which was cancelled, while Apple quietly did the same thing by sharing iCloud user data with the Chinese government.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by bilbo0s on Friday September 20, 2019 @12:33PM (#21028529)
Well, they're not exactly of the same mind.

Apple blocks not only the content, but the ability to even monitor as well. So there is a little extra with the Apple way.

You'd hope google would follow suit, but given their business model it's understandable if they don't. (Not that I'm a supporter of Google's business model, just that I understand why the ability to monitor is still there.)

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by delroth on Friday September 20, 2019 @12:48PM (#21028735)
I can't follow your reasoning. How does Google's business model justify allowing 3rd party Chrome extensions to snoop on user traffic?
Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by amluto on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:20PM (#21029084)
Chrome has not proposed any change that would prevent extensions from monitoring all traffic. You are ascribing a good motivation to Google, but Google’s actions are inconsistent with your hypothetical motivation.

Specifically, Google proposes to continue allowing extensions to observe all requests, but extensions can’t block requests based on these observations.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by otterley on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:23PM (#21032617)
> extensions can’t block requests based on these observations

The new API is called "declarativeNetRequest" and allows extensions to block requests: https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/declarativeNetReques...

"There are the following kinds of rules:

* Rules that block a network request.

* Rules that prevent a request from getting blocked by negating any matching blocked rules.

* Rules that redirect a network request.

* Rules that remove headers from a network request."

> Google proposes to continue allowing extensions to observe all requests

Their expressed intention is to disallow such behavior in the future:

"The declarativeNetRequest API is an alternative to the webRequest API. At its core, this API allows extensions to tell Chrome what to do with a given request, rather than have Chrome forward the request to the extension. Thus, instead of the above flow where Chrome receives the request, asks the extension, and then eventually gets the result, the flow is that the extension tells Chrome how to handle a request and Chrome can handle it synchronously. This allows us to ensure efficiency since a) we have control over the algorithm determining the result and b) we can prevent or disable inefficient rules. This is also better for user privacy, as the details of the network request are never exposed to the extension."

(Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nPu6Wy4LWR66EFLeYInl3Nzz...)

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by amluto on Saturday September 21, 2019 @01:12AM (#21033638)
Quoting from the same page, one paragraph up from your big quote:

> In Manifest V3, this API will be discouraged (and likely limited) in its blocking form. The non-blocking implementation of the webRequest API, which allows extensions to observe network requests, but not modify, redirect, or block them (and thus doesn't prevent Chrome from continuing to process the request) will not be discouraged.

I rest my case.

Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by otterley on Saturday September 21, 2019 @09:14AM (#21035173)
Well, yes. There’s a transition in progress. I would expect the older API to be deprecated or removed in a future version, probably within a couple of years.
Re:Explanation of the state of uBlock Origin and other block... by FeepingCreature on Sunday September 22, 2019 @05:25PM (#21044062)
I'm sorry, are we seriously pretending that the "inefficient rules" aren't going to just happen to be the ones that affect Google ads?