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Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Thursday September 19, 2019 @05:59PM (#21021145)
Because there's a large number of us who want to pay with that data and don't think it's as damaging as cutting off our arms. It is true that there are things we are not allowed to freely exchange: kidneys, livers, most parts of our body. It is true that there are things we are allowed to relatively freely exchange: money, possessions, plasma, blood, and currently data.

Lots of us feel that the data thing should be allowed. That's all.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by dao- on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:10PM (#21022043)
> Because there's a large number of us who want to pay with that data

Okay, cool, don't opt out then. I on the other hand would prefer to see ads based on the content I'm viewing for which no other data from me needs to be passed around.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:34PM (#21022179)
Yeah, and those parts of CCPA I support. I also support the data deletion stuff. Everyone should be able to revoke consent at any time. What I object to is the "you must continue to provide service after opt-out". I think you should be able to say what you're willing to accept and get appropriate service.

In fact, ideally, the User Agent would advertise our privileges. Like a DNT option and websites would respond with a paywall or something instead and be expected (by law) to respect the DNT. Then, on first load, browsers could say, "Do you wish to allow tracking?" and warn about the added paywall cost vs. the tracking cost.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by dao- on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:58PM (#21022322)
> What I object to is the "you must continue to provide service after opt-out".

Well, I quite like that part. It pushes content providers to look for surveillance free business models, such as content based ads that aren't personalized. Why should selling your data vs. paywall be the only options? To protect Google's ad cartel?

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:01PM (#21022332)
Well, then, I suppose that's where our disagreement lies. I would prefer to minimize regulation controlling people so long as harm is not being done (hence I'm pro-CCPA in the ways it protects people from being harmed and disagree with it where does not actively protect from harm) and you have a different bar.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by dao- on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:09PM (#21022390)
> I would prefer to minimize regulation controlling people

That seems like a weird spin. Businesses are being regulated here, not individuals. I don't see how the law would control me.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:14PM (#21022418)
Okay, I'm happy to rewrite that whichever way you like, but I believe businesses are just groups of people. If you wish, consider that 'prefer to minimize regulation binding units of people or groups of people acting in concert'. I'm also content with it just being 'prefer to minimize regulation binding businesses or people so long as no active harm yada yada'.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by dao- on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:39PM (#21022552)
I would submit that mass surveillance is doing harm, see Cambridge Analytica and other recent scandals.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:28PM (#21022787)
Those were non-consensual, so yes, I'm on board with not allowing them.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by emiliobumachar on Friday September 20, 2019 @06:20AM (#21025036)
The core disagreement is that I might want to pay with data only for services to me, and this new standard practically mandates that free riders are allowed.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by dao- on Friday September 20, 2019 @06:47AM (#21025197)
> this new standard practically mandates that free riders are allowed.

It doesn't. That's merely one way how businesses could comply with the law, the other option would be to look for better business models as I said in the comment you replied to.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by 100100010001 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @07:28PM (#21021754)
Is this anecdotal or do you have empirical evidence?
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by sgregnt on Thursday September 19, 2019 @07:45PM (#21021881)
No this is one of the most verified facts. The privacy agreements of gmail, facebook and what not, serve like a poll for this: if you use the service you agree to this. Majority of people use Gmail, Facebook, etc. So this is not anecdotal. On the other hand the desire to "protect" privacy at the expense of free services is based on anecdotal data at best.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by JohnFen on Thursday September 19, 2019 @07:57PM (#21021957)
> The privacy agreements of gmail, facebook and what not, serve like a poll for this

I don't think they do, given that most people don't read them, and a large percentage of them are written so it's very hard to tell what they are really saying unless you're a lawyer.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by vsl on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:05AM (#21023469)
That nobody gives a damn and doesn’t even read it kinda proves the point, no?
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by vidarh on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:18AM (#21023744)
No, because it presupposes that people understand what they might be implicitly allowing by not reading them. Without first knowing whether or not people understand the extent of surveillance that is possible and the possible consequences we can not know what it means that people ignore the privacy agreements.

It's possible people genuinely don't care. It's also possible they don't understand the implications, and/or that they trust these companies more than they ought to.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by JohnFen on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:02PM (#21029528)
No. Not reading it is not equivalent to "not giving a damn".

First, having to read a long block of legalese on every visit to a website (which would be necessary because those privacy polices can change without notice at any time) is unsupportable. If people actually did that, it would render the web completely unusable. The average normal person can't be blamed for saying "screw that", nor can their attitude about privacy really be inferred from it.

Second, even for those of us who are more concerned than the average person about these issues, reading privacy policies is a pointless waste of time. Once you have a lawyer interpret them for you, it turns out that the vast majority of them say the same thing -- they are reserving the right to do anything they want with my data. That means that I can safely predict what privacy policies say, so there's no need to read them.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by 100100010001 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:22PM (#21022468)
If it is a fact then show me the proof.

Just because people use a service doesn’t mean they have read the terms and conditions. Therefore, your anecdote is just that.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by duckMuppet on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:33AM (#21023796)
Using the service is generally an acceptance and agreement to the terms of service.

A similar analogy is that I may not want to read my credit card bill, that doesn't eliminate the responsibility I have to pay it. Or, I may not want to read my visa card notice they send informing of a change in the APR or other conditions for service. however, my continued use of the card is the standard way one accepts new or changed TOS.

Maintaining ignorance doesn't excuse the actions.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by afiori on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:01AM (#21025666)
Your argument implies that Google is acting in the limits of the current law.

Not really relevant to a change in the law.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:48PM (#21022257)
No one's performed a proper survey AFAIK, but the GDPR opt-out rate is very very low, which provides weak evidence. This is not evidence of numbers, but I have an existence proof in that I also personally know a lot of people who know and insist on not opting out.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by gpderetta on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:24PM (#21022475)
> GDPR opt-out rate is very very low,

Then again GDPR requires opt-in, but most sites ignore that and many make the opt out extremely time consuming.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by 100100010001 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:17PM (#21023039)
Your proof is that you “personally know a lot of people who know and insist on not opting out”? That’s anecdotal evidence at best (aka not proof).
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:46PM (#21023185)
This is a confusing interpretation of what I said:

> This is not evidence of numbers, but I have an existence proof in that I also personally know a lot of people who know and insist on not opting out.

Most people I know would interpret that as "I know I'm not the only one because". After all, I specifically say "not evidence of numbers" and I also specifically say "existence proof". I find your response baffling.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by afiori on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:03AM (#21025675)
At best this proves that this law is harmless.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by scarejunba on Friday September 20, 2019 @12:48PM (#21028726)
I don't think the law is harmful. I'm considering the absence of opt-outs and the general prevalence of opt-ins evidence of people not being eager to opt-out.