News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by ilaksh on Monday September 09, 2019 @12:25AM (#20915197)
It would be really interesting to know what the actual profits are and what percentage currently goes to the pilots versus executives and operational costs etc.

Google says they reported $2 billion in profit. Say $300 million was given to 1000 pilots. That would be $300,000 each.

They probably got something like a few thousand pounds pay increase and are feeling like it's not adding up.

I'm routing for the pilots.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by peteretep on Monday September 09, 2019 @02:10AM (#20915597)
> I'm routing for the pilots

Air Traffic Control are routing for the pilots; you are merely rooting for them! :-)

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by harry8 on Monday September 09, 2019 @04:07AM (#20916121)
That may have been a trans-atlantic joke. Pronounciation: Root 66. Network rooter. Joe Root made yet another duck.
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by tsegratis on Monday September 09, 2019 @04:50AM (#20916323)
A rout (or disorderly retreat) is probably not what anyone wants
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by harry8 on Monday September 09, 2019 @07:28AM (#20917137)
Joe Rout. Makes sense.
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by DrJokepu on Monday September 09, 2019 @12:37AM (#20915233)
British Airways Plc is a publicly traded company, so you know, a lot of this information is publicly available:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01777777/filing-h...

Look at the account filings. Not sure if they will break down how much they pay pilots altogether, but there should be data about executive pay and employee wages and salaries.

I’m also rooting for the pilots, by the way.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by relue271 on Monday September 09, 2019 @01:25AM (#20915404)
I’m in favor of pilots, and flight personnel in general, being paid handsomely. The last thing the public needs is flight personnel being disgruntled about not being paid enough.

I want the peace of mind that the people making my flight happen are incredibly happy.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by barry-cotter on Monday September 09, 2019 @02:50AM (#20915785)
And yet revealed preference suggests that people shop for flights almost exclusively on price. If you feel like paying an extra hundred or five for happier employees that’s a fine personal preference but people who act like that aren’t a significant enough market segment to be worth catering to.
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by TeMPOraL on Monday September 09, 2019 @05:24AM (#20916525)
"Revealed preferences" need to die. That people shop on price, all other things being equal, is obvious and the driver of the economy. If all else is not equal, but people don't know it or can't meaningfully affect it, they'll still shop on price and any talk of "revealed preferences" here is nonsense.

A typical flyer is separated by at least one layer of abstraction (airline, travel agency, ...) from the labor situation of the flight crew, so there's little visibility into that, and little possibility to affect things with your purchasing choice. How can I "reveal" the real ordering of my preferences if I can't pay $X extra to get a slightly safer flight, because the only other option on the market costs $10X more? At the same time, there's high trust that government organizations ensure that civilian flight is safe to the point any variation is a rounding error not worth thinking about.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by yostrovs on Monday September 09, 2019 @06:24AM (#20916833)
A typical flyer is not concerned about the pay of pilots. He's concerned about his price to fly. Those that are concerned about pay do so regardless of whether they're flying. They do it because they root for the little guy, or they hate corporations, or they respect pilots. But the point is the two groups are different. They do overlap somewhat, but it's meaningless.
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by jacquesm on Monday September 09, 2019 @01:08PM (#20920003)
Ditto for teachers, police, firemen and medical personnel.
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by vxNsr on Monday September 09, 2019 @01:27AM (#20915412)
Where was the quarterly/annual filing, I couldn't find while skimming.

Incidentally, it seems someone at the company is gonna have a stern talking to: https://i.imgur.com/FcsmqtU.png

Found the most recent: https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live....

Seems they paid 2.5 bil in salaries to all employees

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by vl on Monday September 09, 2019 @02:49AM (#20915781)
An article from the former airline pilot explaining airline unions:

https://philip.greenspun.com/flying/unions-and-airlines

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by oldgradstudent on Monday September 09, 2019 @04:40AM (#20916262)
> An article from the former airline pilot explaining airline unions:

Philip Greenspun is tech entrepreneur that flies as a hobby. He flew in an airline for a short while, but he is not a "former airline pilot".

Sully, on the other hand, writes in his book:

> “I also understood the history behind our profession’s dependence on a seniority system. It started in the 1930s, as a way to avoid the favoritism, cronyism, and nepotism rampant in the early days. It was about safety as much as fairness. It insulated us from office politics and threats to hinder our careers if we didn’t “play the game.” A layman might think such a seniority system would lead to mediocrity. Nothing could be further from the truth. Pilots are a pretty proud bunch and they find it rewarding when they have the respect of their peers. The system works.”

The seniority system is what gives the captain the power to say no to the airline when pressured to fly in unsafe conditions without repercussions.

Philip Greenspun could just say no and go back to his life as a retired tech millionaire.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by vl on Monday September 09, 2019 @06:09PM (#20923029)
>He flew in an airline for a short while, but he is not a "former airline pilot".

"He flew in an airline for a short while" literally means that he is a former airline pilot, i.e. in the past he piloted aircraft, while being employed by an airline. Currently he also works as a helicopter instructor.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by oldgradstudent on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @04:14PM (#20933148)
These are different things.

He was not subject to the same constraints and incentives that professional airline pilots are subject to.

For example, without a union and the seniority system, airline pilots that are pressured to fly with badly maintained planes are faced with a major dilemma. They can agree and risk their passengers, or refuse and face repercussions. Their livelihood and social status depends on them keeping their jobs, and the vast majority don't have the resources to withstand lawsuits.

Philip Greenspun can just go back to fly his collection of private planes and helicopters. He faces no repercussions if he refuses or goes to the press.

He has no skin in this game.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by vl on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @03:59AM (#20937586)
And yet it doesn't mean that he can't write a factual article about airline unions using his insider's perspective.
Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by oldgradstudent on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:48AM (#20940750)
Everyone can write an article about airline unions.

He just doesn't have the insider's perspective.

He can disagree with Sully's reasons why the seniority system is important for safety, but he should at least address it.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by vl on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @02:53PM (#20943475)
This article has a lot of arguments specifically about safety. And even then, unions can increase safety in some domain, while simultaneously decrease safety in other domain and bankrupt host airline.

Moreover, Sully, as senior pilot, was direct benefactor of the union system that exploits younger pilots, so his opinions should be scrutinized first of all.

Re:British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-... by oldgradstudent on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @01:09PM (#20942381)
A better analogy would be the company owner's son who "started at the bottom" explaining why a union is unnecessary.