Please don't turn HN discussions into a political flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The live stream was heavily oriented towards the VIPs in the mission control room. There were interesting things going on but the video kept angling for reaction shots. It was annoying if you came for the space and all you got was the politics.

This is pretty typical for ISRO, or any government entity. It's not even political. If you see the older livestreams, you'll see a podium bought to the mission control room floor, where the ISRO bigwigs will deliver their remarks and congratulations. Wouldn't surprise me if this is followed by a "Vote of Thanks" and presenting of a bouquet.

I think you are unnecessarily making this political. Even if India was successful at landing i dont think the government would count it as 'their' achievement rather would be counted as an achievement of the whole nation. And even 'non-blind' followers would celebrate, given how everyone were on edge of their seats yesterday. Also no one is bashing Nehru because he started ISRO.

Calling the moon landing a government PR gimmick is highly irrespectful to the scientists behind this.

> I think you are unnecessarily making this political

GP is just highlighting that India's ruling party made this unnecessarily political. I'm not sure why it's being downvoted when it's factually accurate and is interesting in the context of the discussion. This is exactly the same thing that was going on in the Soviet Union where space project schedules were dictated by key party dates and celebrations. Not sure if it was a factor here, but multiple Soviet missions suffered due to being pushed to meet politically motivated party deadlines.

Most of the science is indeed onboard the orbiter. The mission was a success for the scientists.

> GP is just highlighting that India's ruling party made this unnecessarily political. I'm not sure why it's being downvoted when it's factually accurate and is interesting in the context of the discussion.

Could you share some citations to justify your comment? There is no evidence out there that Chandrayaan was politicized by the Government. ISRO is funded by the Government and Department of Space directly comes under the PM. So, there is bound to be some Government/Minister presence.

Why should there be something distracting on launch day ?

Distracting to whom? The scientists were pretty much focussed with their tasks.

You are telling me ISRO spent no resources catering to this visit. Even 0.1% of resources, mindshare and energy wasted on landing day is stupid IMO. Do all speeches, visits the next day. Modi was clearly there for a photo op.

To be fair, I remember PM Manmohan Singh also in ISRO live streams so that wasn't it.

My issue is that the 100 day celebration was timed around rover landing and unfortunately rover did not land.

The assumption GP made is that government deliberately planned their 100 days in office and the moon landing date to coincide. But the actual date of mission was different and was posponded last minute(literally) because of a leakage. So if the ruling party (ruling for past 5 years) really wanted the dates to coincide they would have easily scheduled the initial date to coincide.

So there is no 'factual' correctness in the comment. And adding political angle and then comparing India to Soviet based on that is unnecessary.

He has not ruled "since 5yrs"

His second term just started in May

> Also no one is bashing Nehru because he started ISRO

Respectfully, you are not right. Just go down this thread and you'll find one comment which says "Just because Nehru did one thing right doesn't absolve his wrongs"

There has been a coordinated attempt to distort history and malign Nehru. Not claiming that he did not screw up, he did. But he doesn't get credit due to the misinformation campaign

The thing was on its way to the Moon already by that time. The mission has been a long time making, it's pretty disrespectful to the effort of all the scientists to limit it to just distraction from Kashmir. Especially since it isn't as if showing an interest in space is a first for Modi.

Modi’s been in power for years. This is an initiative started while he was in office.

My point isn’t that it’s a distraction, but that it’s also about building party power. Kashmir is just the brightest, clearest signal regarding the goals of his administration.

Edit: While the push to complete it came in 2015, it was (see poster below) in the works as far back as 2007, and I was mistaken to think it’s directly attributable to Modi.

Chandrayaan 2 was approved in 2008 by the UPA government of Manmohan Singh. The mission was planned for 2012-13, with Russia to provide the lander. Russian delays forced ISRO to start development on its own lander in 2015.

It's just lazy to lay every action at Modi's feet.

Reading a lot of nytimes or bbc editorial these days? Do you have any idea about the history of Kashmir and how it is infested with Pakistan trained terrorists.?

And there has been no terrorism in Kashmir since decades, right?

The existence of terrorism gives you the right to invade?

Invade? Please for god sake read about India and Kashmir first before you reveal your ignorance here. Kashmir has a complex history. It was ALWAYS part of India but governed under a certain constitutional provision. The Indian Govt just revoked that provision.

I’m aware of the history of the region. Maybe erupting in fury about whether or not the armed occupation is an invasion isn’t the most productive debate.

The ruling class stood by the nation's scientists at the time of failure, which is not a norm in India. But again, I've seen people who hate Modi/BJP "celebrating" ISRO's failure on social media. So, this comment wasn't exactly surprising.

You see, ISRO is the poster boy for Indians. They are brilliant and hard working. Exactly opposite of any other govt org

So even if ISRO fails it is temporary. And we all are unconditionally proud of ISRO no matter what.

No one has not stood by the scientists. That would be an incredibly stupid move.

You are being disrespectful to the scientists who have been working on this project for 12 years with this asinine comment. Absolutely shameful and disgusting!

I could be wrong, but I think Modi came across as a lot more compassionate leader after the failure. And, to be honest, what is wrong with chest thumping if you have a success.

Regarding Nehru, one good deed doesn't get rid of his other sins and royal screw ups.

> And, to be honest, what is wrong with chest thumping if you have a success.

Chest thumping is fine for your success, not of someone else's in which one had a grand total of 0 contribution

Dang: parent comment is yet another flame war thing.

Doing exactly what I said in my origin comment! Blaming Nehru while PM tales credit for ISRO, an org started by Nehru

Also

https://hwnews.in/news/national-news/govt-cuts-back-incentiv...

You don't get to chest thump after you cut salaries of ISRO staff and yet want to use their work for nationalisic agenda

Given the successful landing would've been a political bragging point, could contact have been lost deliberately by people with a different political affiliation?

I am anti Modi but I so much wanted this mission to succeed. ISRO is the only organization in India which is doing great on global level. It was really irritating the moment Modi turned this mission into his PR gimmick. Had this mission succeeded, the public euphoria would have been something unparalleled. Recently public reactions to Pulwama attack (months of protesting, candle light marches), article 370 issue (people started dancing on the streets when it was removed) were actually terrifying because it showed the rise of maddening extreme nationalism.

But ISRO was away from this madness and political agenda. Now Modi has turned his eye on this organization, god save ISRO because Modi has tried to undermine the independence of every other major institutions like Army, RBI, EC, CAG etc.

Are you implying that rest of the anti-Modi folks wanted this mission to fail? That's somewhat sad.

ISRO is funded by the Government and PM heads the Department of Sapce. So, what did you expect him to do? Nod off and go to sleep. It's actually good to have a PM who stands by country's scientists even at the time of failure(and not just at the time of success).

> You see PM standing by the ISRO (regardless of the outcome of mission) and I see a PM doing drama for PR exercise. Otherwise he doesn't care a bit about science or education.

Okay. So for you, presence of the PM at an event(with significant probability of failure) which involved tremendous amount of nation's prowess(scientific as well as non-scientific) and that too by the department which directly falls under him is a PR exercise.

Thanks for clarifying. Spared me reading rest of the irrelevant detail which probably has nothing to do with Space.

What else was it if not a PR exercise ? Was he helping mission control ? IMO leaders should let scientists focus in crunch time. He could have come one day later to give a speech or something.

> IMO leaders should let scientists focus in crunch time.

What do you mean "focus"? The landing mission was not controlled by the scientists at all. The mission was taken over by the lander and was automated. The lander chose the landing spot and the trajectory. The scientists could do nothing but just monitor the data coming in. Modi being there or not being there would not have changed the outcome. So stop this canard. It is getting ridiculous now.

And Modi's presence won't change anything. They have been working on this for 12 years. If you think Modi's presence would make a difference you are just insulting the Scientific minds that work in ISRO. He went there to support his team as he heads the Department of Space. A leader always is with his team during tough times. That is all there is to it. Trying to see political angle in everything has become a stupid habit of the left brigade and to such an extent that they do not care about the Country anymore.

Please stop calling anyone who doesn't agree with you "left" brigade and "anti national". It insults everyone's intelligence. You don't know me or my political views. You know my opinion on this issue, let's stick to debating that.

Modi's presence sure wouldn't make the lander land better. What if there are key decisions that need to be taken in some missions, in an emergency, would you want politicians looking over their shoulder ? Modi could have gone a day later and given a raucous congratulatory speech or a motivating speech.

> Modi could have gone a day later and given a raucous congratulatory speech or a motivating speech.

That's not how it works. He had to attend some keys events in Maharashtra in official capacity for the rest of the day. He can't just drop in at any time even as a PM.

> Modi's presence sure wouldn't make the lander land better. What if there are key decisions that need to be taken in some missions, in an emergency, would you want politicians looking over their shoulder ? Modi could have gone a day later and given a raucous congratulatory speech or a motivating speech.

There are no key decisions as there is no realtime communication. As simple as that. There is a huge delay between when the signal is emitted from the lander and the time it takes to reach the ground station. That process cannot be sped up, emergency or not. Instead of all this whataboutery why not just take some time and read up on the actual facts? What is this nonsense about politicians looking over their shoulder? Modi is a respected man in ISRO. And this isn't the first time Modi visited ISTRAC during a launch or an important mission. Nor is he the first Prime Minister to do so. Manmohan Singh also visited ISRO during important launch missions. Heck the entire Department comes under the Prime Minister. So I don't see what all this fuss is about unless it is a hatred for Modi which has no cure! And are Scientists going to be affected by the presence of the Prime Minister and not the entire Leftist International press (Specifically BBC, New York Times, Washington Post and the other usual leftist outlets) that has written nothing but garbage about Indian Space Program and how it is not worth it when India has to still tackle poverty? Isn't that greater pressure than the presence of the PM who has nothing but been supportive of ISRO whether it be success or failure? If I were an ISRO scientist I would be more worried about leftist Western Media breathing down my neck hoping against hope that we screw up so they can write more articles about how India lacks toilets and basic infrastructure and post images of slums rather than be worried about a Prime Minister who has never been bad to me in any shape or form. A PM who got many scientific projects that were stuck in limbo for over a decade in an endless loop of official approvals out so I could work on them. I would be scared of this supportive PM and not the negative press? Really?

If I were you, I would have called for removal of the leftist International Press that dared to insult ISRO and its Scientists and still gets an opportunity to sit in ISTRAC and watch the entire Mission. But nope. Target the Prime Minister because all he did was to go and give some encouragement. He is a softer target because he is used to taking insults all the time. And you know who insulted ISRO scientists after the launch? It was a journalist from a leftist news organization called NDTV: Pallava Bagla [1]. Is this the way to behave with a Scientist? Modi had to go back again to console the Scientists and the Chairman who was in tears [2]. Absolutely shameless and disgusting.

> Please stop calling anyone who doesn't agree with you "left" brigade and "anti national". It insults everyone's intelligence. You don't know me or my political views. You know my opinion on this issue, let's stick to debating that.

Because you are insulting everyones intelligence here by stating that Modi's presence will somehow affect Scientists working on the Mission. Mine is more saner, realistic and grounded in facts compared to yours. And yes you belong to the leftist brigade. There is now no doubt about that. The more and more you try to argue your non-existent point the more evident it becomes. That is how all frustrated leftists behave. Somehow try to stick their own fallacious assumptions on Modi and hope it will stick. It is a vicious spiral. Once you start hating someone you try finding everything that can justify that hatred. Even if that something is extremely irrational. Imagine if the person sitting there wasn't Modi and it was someone else you like. Would that have changed the outcome of the Mission? Nope. Would the Scientists have felt any pressure? Nope. There you have your answer.

[1] https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/journalist-draws-flak-for-h...

[2] https://www.indiatoday.in/trending-news/story/isro-chief-k-s...

> What else was it if not a PR exercise ?

He heads the Department of Space. That's good enough to justify his presence.

> IMO leaders should let scientists focus in crunch time.

Scientists were very much focussed from what I saw.

He heads the entire government. Doesn't mean he goes to every launch, announcement etc..

What a load of garbage. Seriously go consult some psychiatrist at the earliest.

I call complete utter bullshit on your anti modi hysteria.

A bit like asking would democrats have foiled the moon landing to deny Nixon the credit - I find it hard to believe the scientists who put years into the project would screw it up over a change in political leadership