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Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by libria on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @08:09PM (#20882670)
As RC vehicles {car|helicopter|plane} get larger they reach a certain mass where liquid fuel - usually a petroleum - is preferable to battery. Why is this not an alternative for drones?
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by desdiv on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @09:40PM (#20883136)
It's been done, but it's expensive. Not many people can drop $30,000 on a drone: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1416171-REG/walkera_q...
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by cameldrv on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:51AM (#20883925)
It's hardly $30k to buy a gas drone. You can buy a Cox .049 engine for $50 or so.

You're looking at a fixed wing aircraft though with one of those. What's made the quadcopter drone possible is the high torque and instantaneous throttle response of small electric motors, combined with fast control electronics. The conventional way to fly a small helicopter is just like a full sized helicopter, with a main rotor and a mechanical swash plate.

With the right control electronics, these can easily be made into drones, but people tend to not like them as much anymore because they're mechanically complex and finicky. The electric motors are simple, and when one goes bad you just drop in a new one.

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by twic on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:41AM (#20885417)
Could you couple one of those engines to a generator, and use that to power the electric motors? You'd need a battery or supercapacitor to handle change in throttle demand that outpaces generator response too.
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by jsjohnst on Thursday September 05, 2019 @07:35AM (#20885660)
Weight is the limiting factor. Try to find a generator that can output up to 400amps at 25V (what my big drone draws) and yet weighs less than five pounds including fuel.

I think that’s a more impossible goal than increasing power density in batteries is.

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by danmaz74 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:07AM (#20885825)
400 ampere??
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by scotty79 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:09AM (#20887491)
https://youtu.be/7zMPodObo-Y

This guy tries to make gasoline powered generator for large drone.

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by yardie on Thursday September 05, 2019 @09:14AM (#20886314)
Thermal to mechanical to electrical to mechanical. That’s a lot of energy conversions and with each conversion you lose a lot of efficiencies.
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by m-ee on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @10:36PM (#20883394)
Controls are more complicated if you're not using electric motors where a microcontroller can easily adjust the RPM. Someones already linked a hybrid drone with a gas powered generator but it's not cheap. In high volume it could probably come down a lot but I don't know how much demand there is for it.
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by bluescrn on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:54AM (#20884453)
The electric motors used can change the speed of 4+ independent propellers extremely quickly.

This is hard to do with petrol engines, without costing a lot of extra weight or mechanical complexity, in a system where any single failure means a crash

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by scotty79 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:12AM (#20887518)
I wonder if there's some simple variable transmission that could be electronically controlled to deliver power from the motor to the propellers in highly controlled fashion.
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by ahartmetz on Thursday September 05, 2019 @03:36PM (#20890017)
A generator and four motors. Efficiency would probably be around 70%. It's about 90% in diesel-electric locomotives where more weight and money is spent on efficient conversion hardware.
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by scotty79 on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:12AM (#20895291)
That adds weight of 4 beefy electric motors to the system.

There's differential based continous variable transmission that varies according to resistive torque on a control shaft: https://makezine.com/2012/08/10/lego-continuously-variable-t...

This might enable electronic control witout using any motors just one simple coil per propeller. Energy generated through this way of control could be stored to power onboard devices.

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by fma on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @10:09PM (#20883267)
I've watched people fly RC airplane and helicopters with gas engines. They still exist, and there are air fields for them. I've seen them since the 90s as a kid. They aren't expensive but, are bigger and require an actual landing and takeoff area.

https://www.hobbytown.com/gas-rc-airplanes/c7574

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by TylerE on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @11:52PM (#20883699)
Those aren’t usually gas, but rather a nitromethane mix, runs off glow plugs (saves all the issues of timing, spark plus, distributors...)
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by terravion on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @08:13PM (#20882687)
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by libria on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @08:40PM (#20882839)
Let me rephrase: why would companies consider battery life a limit when liquid fuel is a viable way forward for range, time-aloft or size?
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @10:23PM (#20883341)
Repeating my post above:

Given the line of sight limitation for drones, gas power does not add much value. Batteries are usually sufficient to map/photograph the area within range of the operator. Given this legal limitation, it is often more economical to hire a small plane like a Cessna with an avionics package and a 400 mi range.

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by guelo on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @08:50PM (#20882882)
Nobody wants to risk the liability and noise of a flying lawnmower.
Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by buran on Thursday September 05, 2019 @07:22AM (#20885602)
And then use it for what?

They exist, but they are expensive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0Hr2lw604

Re:Drone Bubble Bursts, Wiping Out Startups and Hammering VC... by colechristensen on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @08:22PM (#20882746)
It certainly has been done, and on small drones too.