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Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by grecy on Monday September 02, 2019 @10:18PM (#20863230)
> I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone

I tried to tell my family about the Snowden leaks and the implications just a year ago. They are all university educated people.

They categorically did not believe that what I was saying was real, and when I showed them all the leaks they did not believe the content was true.

Billions of people simply don't believe it's true.

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by derpherpsson on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @02:58AM (#20864215)
I know I should not post reaction-posts here. But this is Truly Horrifying in more than one way.

Did they not even investigate your claim? Or did they just settle with labeling you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by grecy on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:47AM (#20865592)
> Did they not even investigate your claim? Or did they just settle with labeling you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?

They kind of settled half way between "I don't believe that's possible / I don't care".

For them, it makes zero difference in their lives, so they just don't want to invest time and energy into thinking about it.

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by Bombthecat on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @04:50AM (#20864735)
Same as climate change, no info is real... I'm not sure it is because we humans grow stupid or we grow so tired and sceptical that accept nothing what our own eyes see...

While still billions of people believe in Allah, God or whatever without any evidence. I dont know how this can happen...

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by coldtea on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @05:20AM (#20864878)
>While still billions of people believe in Allah, God or whatever without any evidence. I dont know how this can happen...

Isn't it obvious? In both cases people do the smart thing (which is not necessarily the "objectively correct" thing).

Faith in Allah, God etc, is a good social glue, and is personally comforting, helping regulate emotions, etc.

Similarly, not believing the Snowden story helps them fit with their social group (e.g. republicans), relaxes their mind from a whole lot of worries and concerns, helps re-enforce their personal beliefs (e.g. in good government), etc -- and most importantly, has no real disadvantage in their day to day life and work...

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by gargravarr on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @09:49AM (#20866419)
See also: Pascal's Wager[1]

The leaks about mass-surveillance don't fit the criteria, as best I can tell. It's in their best interests not to, as you state.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by derpherpsson on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @10:57AM (#20867076)
Pascal's wager suffer from the fact that it can be any of the myrriads of religions that are correct. The chance of picking the correct one is infinitely small (assuming there are aliens that also have religions). Only a subset of the religions have anything like hell/heaven, further diminishing the risk.
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by Shorel on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @12:47PM (#20868429)
I think the main issue with Pascal's wager is that it puts all its eggs in the basket of some afterlife being a certainty.

You can very well waste all your life in pointless prayer, like the monk who basically imprinted his feet on the wooden floor by praying several hours a day for decades.

Even getting out of that room to help someone in a trivial task would have been much more useful than the praying.

Not to mention the huge amount of censorship over your own thoughts that some religions impose on your life.

So, IMO, if you get the wrong end of Pascal's wager, you can waste your only life, every infinitely valuable second of it (because there's no afterlife), over a non-existent afterlife.

That's a hell of a wager to lose.

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by whatshisface on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @01:14AM (#20863860)
You should show them the reactions of elected representatives to hearing about it. (I know of only a few clear verifications, if anyone more knowledgeable wants to chime in with a list that would be welcome.)
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by rorykoehler on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:13AM (#20865399)
With deep fakes even that is up for dispute.
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @08:05AM (#20865710)
Make them watch the movie. I find it gets the message across pretty well.
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by lern_too_spel on Monday September 02, 2019 @11:22PM (#20863492)
What did you think was in the leaks? In my experience, when people say their parents or friends didn't believe what they said was in the leaks, the parents and friends were usually right.
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by dondada on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @01:53AM (#20864007)
That the NSA and GCHQ were illegally collecting phone records and internet browsing details of anyone they wanted.

The fact that the UK government recently passed a law[0] to make this legal makes it pretty clear that this is real.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-chart...

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by lern_too_spel on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @04:52AM (#20864753)
How do you know what grecy told their parents?
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by d3v0 on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @02:37AM (#20864152)
I'm sorry but you are either implying that the leaks were fake or that 'parents and friends' are always right. In both cases I'll disagree heavily.
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by Vinnl on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @04:12AM (#20864554)
I think they're implying that the leaks often don't say what people think they say.

(Not agreeing, just explaining.)

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by coldtea on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @05:21AM (#20864882)
How often does that happen?
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by arthurcolle on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @01:31AM (#20863928)
What does this comment even mean?
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by lern_too_spel on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @04:50AM (#20864741)
It means that people think the leaks say what Greenwald claimed they said instead of what they actually said, and when those people tell their parents what Greenwald said, they sound like lunatics. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20456352
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by coldtea on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @05:29AM (#20864921)
A, the BS "there's an added hop so it's not happening/serious" defense. People still fall for this?
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by lern_too_spel on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @05:59AM (#20865085)
The added hop means that the NSA can't request anything they want from the Internet messaging companies. They can only see foreigner data from the specific users the FBI has already wiretapped via court order. There are no leaked documents that say otherwise and plenty of documents that corroborate my assertions.

This is why it hasn't been ruled illegal. Do people actually believe that phone metadata collection is illegal but the crazy thing Greenwald misread PRISM to be is not? That's going to trip grecy's university-educated family's bullshit detector.

Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by derpherpsson on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @11:21AM (#20867379)
Pro tip: Read the leaks. They are actual documents, that can be read. Try it!
Re:South African authorities admit to mass surveillance by lern_too_spel on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @01:29AM (#20874265)
That's what I did and what I suspect grecy did not do.