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A comment on Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought. Parent comment

Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by chrisco255 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:41AM (#20844646)
Seems unlikely in the absence of metal mastery and we are reasonably sure we've found no evidence of iron usage in tool making before the iron age. Humans traded even in prehistoric times, so such tools would have been discovered in sites even remote from this mythical advanced civilization. It seems unlikely that such is the case.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by Boebo on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:22AM (#20845049)
Actually there are iron weapons made from meteoric iron from before the iron age. Small scale for sure for obvious reasons. Not that relevant to the topic but it might interest you.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by greglindahl on Saturday August 31, 2019 @04:03AM (#20845159)
Meteoric steel isn't just iron, that's why it's interesting. And why it survives, compared to very early iron made before people learned how to turn it into steel.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by dredmorbius on Saturday August 31, 2019 @10:56AM (#20846625)
NB: Meteoric ferrous metals are almost universally iron or iron-nickel, not steel (iron-carbon). I find few or no hits outside the gaming world for "meteoric steel".

Are you referring to steel found indigenously within meteor fragments, steel forged from meteoric iron, or was this just a misspeaking?

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by greglindahl on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:46PM (#20847380)
Sorry, I was misremembering stories about things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun%27s_meteoric_iron_... -- the point being that as an iron alloy (iron-nickel not steel) it doesn't rust away quickly in graves like early human-smelted iron does.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by dredmorbius on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:35PM (#20847661)
Ah, thanks.

Yes, there are some instances of meteoric iron being used.

I'd thought there were archeological finds of pallasite as well, though may have been confusing those with the Fukang meteorite. Gorgeous material, though.

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by adt2bt on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:42AM (#20845102)
Not OP but it interests me! Do you have a link by any chance?
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by lixtra on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:52AM (#20845130)
I.e. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteoric_iron#cite_note-Wald...

There are several examples in the Wikipedia entry

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by kortilla on Saturday August 31, 2019 @02:20AM (#20844877)
Didn’t say anything about it being an iron civilization.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by chrisco255 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @02:43AM (#20844950)
Well metal is critical because it's really really hard to chop wood without metal. So you've got stones, bones, and loose timber to work with. About the closest evidence I can find is Mezhirich, a small paleolithic village built out of mammoth bones: https://www.thoughtco.com/mezhirich-mammoth-bone-settlement-... about 18000 years ago.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by jdmoreira on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:07AM (#20845022)
The mesoamerican civilizations used no iron
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by chrisco255 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:45PM (#20847708)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_...
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by flexie on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:32AM (#20845075)
They did chop trees with stone tools. Here you can see how:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BN-34JfUrHY

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by chrisco255 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @04:36AM (#20845236)
Yes well I'm talking about chopping trees down and building homes out of them (and enough homes for a civilization). No doubt smaller sticks and loose timber could be used, that's how man mastered fire in the first place. But chopping whole trees probably didn't happen much until after metal.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by mkl on Saturday August 31, 2019 @06:59AM (#20845606)
You can build enough homes for a civilisation without felling any big trees at all. Stone, clay bricks, earth, small trees and branches, straw, etc. would be sufficient.

Even felling big trees doesn't need iron tools - controlled fire will do most of the work: http://www.cherokeeheritage.org/attractions/dugout-canoe/

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by chrisco255 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:51PM (#20847755)
That looks extremely laborious but it's a fascinating technique. It still limits the amount of lumber one group can use. I agree on clay (in some regions) and stone being available and useable. It still says nothing about supporting a civilization, which requires agriculture.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by mkl on Saturday August 31, 2019 @06:52PM (#20849317)
You're moving goalposts, but early civilisations supported themselves with agriculture before developing metal-working: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/development-of-ag... https://www.ancient.eu/Stone_Age/
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by reallydude on Saturday August 31, 2019 @08:29PM (#20849722)
> Yes well I'm talking about chopping trees down and building homes out of them

https://youtu.be/zVPUFMwm73Y?t=228

Relevant: Coppice

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by dredmorbius on Saturday August 31, 2019 @11:00AM (#20846652)
Large-scale wood-based construction in paleolithic cultures did exist, notably in the Alps:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_pile_dwellings_aro...

Not fine woodworking, perhaps, but possible.

Most early construction was based on found shelter (caves), hides, sod or turf, brick, or stone. Locally-available and hand-workable with very simple tools.

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by chrisco255 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:41PM (#20847689)
5000-500 B.C. is not the paleolithic era. That's well into the Neolithic and Bronze age.
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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by dredmorbius on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:51PM (#20848433)
Point. "Neolithic/early bronze" is stated in the article. Point being that working wood with stone tools happened.

Ale native American lodgehouses and pueblos (adobe walls, timber roofs), also stone tools.

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Re:Humans Dominated Earth Earlier Than Previously Thought by hutzlibu on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:51AM (#20845128)
I'll go along your argument, that it seems very unlikely that there was a advanced civilization but just hypothetical:

if there was a really really old civilization, wouldn't their iron tools be degraded beyound recognition? (especially if it was a coastal civilization later drowned in the salty sea)

Oh and a (spaced out) esoteric explanation, some people tried to convince me of: this old civilization was so advanced it had quantum technology aka magic to get things done and eventually wiped itself out in a civil war ..

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