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Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by dpkonofa on Thursday August 29, 2019 @05:02PM (#20833635)
They are...

Genuine question, do you honestly not know that Apple has provided their own recommendations for RTR laws and modifications to the current proposals or are you making some other point by saying that?

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by gizmo686 on Thursday August 29, 2019 @09:30PM (#20835254)
Link? Every time I see "Apple" and "right to repair law" in the same sentence, Apple is opposing the legislation.
Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by dpkonofa on Thursday August 29, 2019 @10:20PM (#20835475)
This is the best I can provide, at the moment: https://apple.slashdot.org/story/19/03/28/1810247/internal-d...

Apple and its lobbyists aren't opposed to "Right to Repair" legislation, they're opposed to the currently proposed legislation because it requires them to make concessions to the process without any kind of guidance or oversight of the repairs made using the parts that they would be forced to provide. The link shows that, even prior to the Right to Repair bills proposed in most states, Apple was already developing a framework, internally, to find a way to allow third-party repair centers to repair their products while also maintaining some level of quality control. Unsurprisingly, this is exactly the announcement that was made today.

Unfortunately, I can't find the link that I was actually looking for because any search for the info I'm looking for is immediately drowned out by the Vice article mentioned in the post I just linked or some blogspam that just links to it. Suffice it to say, if they were opposed to third parties repairing their products, they wouldn't have allowed the repairs previously and they wouldn't have planned something out like this for over a year and a half.

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by nulbyte on Thursday August 29, 2019 @11:12PM (#20835680)
> without any kind of guidance or oversight of the repairs made using the parts that they would be forced to provide

I may have missed calls to force Apple to sell parts. Is that actually happening? In any case, aftermarket parts exist, but Apple is intentionally annoying users with persistent messaging in their product and intentionally making their devices difficult to repair. Further, Apple often replaces devices instead of repairing. Difficult repair in not incidental to their design; they're doing it on purpose. And I wouldn't expect Apple to have oversight of an unaffiliated company. It's not their business to play regulator.

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by dpkonofa on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:34AM (#20836372)
Apple replaces devices and then takes the old devices, disassembles them, and checks each component for issues individually. They take each phone about and literally have buckets of these components that they test. Those that pass inspection get turned back into the remanufactured assembly line where older out of warranty phones go. It's not like they're just dumping these devices that they're replacing. It's just easier to replace an entire device and then have trained pros deal with testing and repairing the components than it does to have customers wait for someone at the Genius Bar, who probably couldn't do it anyways. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, most people aren't Louis Rossman. Most people don't know how to do those kinds of repairs.

And yes, part of the bills that are being considered for a lot of these Right to Repair laws include regulations that would require Apple to sell OEM parts to third-party repair centers and that they would have to provide service manuals to them, free of cost. Apple is ok with doing that as long as they get to certify the people who get the manual to their repair standards. They're not intentionally making the devices difficult to repair. Most of the complaints that people have about their reparability have to do with their small size or software locks that, in reality, are meant to protect people's data from unauthorized access. Error 53 that everyone loves to point out as an evil Apple move was actually a software lock to prevent someone from putting a false Touch ID sensor on the device that was collecting biometric data but still relaying the lock command to the phone. Apple's security chain in that regard worked exactly as intended. They didn't expect to ever see a legitimate use for a fake Touch ID sensor but it happened when people decided that losing Touch ID was worth getting their screen repaired cheaper.

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by rasz on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:49AM (#20836634)
Nice fairy tale, in reality Apple sends stuff to CSAT Solutions, and they glue shoe rubber to BGA chips because its cheaper than reballing.
Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by labawi on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:00AM (#20836461)
It is plausible Error 53 check is to prevent tampering with Touch ID, it may even be a design good for security, but AFAIK it tripped even if the sensor was replaced by another genuine sensor, hence the outrage.
Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by dpkonofa on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:35PM (#20841260)
It's not the sensor. A security chain (any security chain) relies on the fact that each step of the chain is verified and trusted. Moving, removing, or replacing any part of that chain requires that the whole chain is re-verified for trust.

That'd be like me and you being in a secret club with a secret handshake. We've been meeting at the same bar every week for years. All of sudden, your twin brother shows up one day and, as always, I go to do our secret handshake and he can't do it. He looks like you. He comes from the same parents. I have no reason to suspect that it's not you because "you" showed up just like you do every week. But I know something's not right because he doesn't know the handshake.

It's the same thing with an iPhone. That's exactly how you know that it's not third-parties that Apple cares about and that they're not trying to actively prevent anything done by third parties. If that's all it was, an OEM Apple sensor would be fine. It's not, though, because it has nothing to do with third-party vs. first-party and everything to do with security.

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by ramses0 on Friday August 30, 2019 @11:45AM (#20839682)
But it was tripped due to the loss of contact/difference with the touchid sensor (attached to screen) and motherboard (attached to battery).

An interruption in connection, or a change in device identifier on either end is cause to require an “apple-authorized” reset, or discarding/ignoring any sensitive personally identifiable information (PII), of which fingerprints are definitely PII.

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by gizmo686 on Thursday August 29, 2019 @10:33PM (#20835526)
I don't think that helps your case. It seems to be saying that Apple is already planning on doing voluntarily, what the legislation they are opposing would require. That is exactly the type of cynical behavior my original post was accusing Apple of.

If Apple wants good right to repair laws, then this is the perfect time for them to be lobbying for good right to repair laws. As a proponent of right to repair laws, I would love to have Apple at the table when the laws are being drafted. Everything that I have seen suggests this is not what is happening. Instead of lobbying for improvements to the right to repair laws, they are lobbying against them. The fact that the laws are similar to Apple's internal plan suggests that they are being well drafted despite that (perhaps because of behind the scenes lobbying, or other stakeholders with a similar position to Apple, or the drafters just have a good understanding of the industry).

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by dpkonofa on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:46AM (#20836036)
I guess I see it differently and I wish I could find the post I was referring to. I think that the current versions of the laws, which are different than many of the original laws that hit the first few states, are a direct result of Apple's lobbying. I don't think it's an accident that the proposed laws have sections that almost mirror the document in that link as far as what's required. If the date on that article is accurate too, then that plan from Apple actually pre-dates a lot of the right to repair legislation.
Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by aspenmayer on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:57PM (#20843106)
Do you remember anything more about Apple’s involvements? Which states were involved in their suggested changes? I have only been successful in finding info on how they have opposed the right to repair legislatively via lobbying and PR. I haven’t found any info about laws or changes to existing/proposed laws Apple has supported in the right to repair. Here’s what I could find with Apple against right to repair:

Apple Tells Lawmaker that Right to Repair iPhones Will Turn Nebraska Into a ‘Mecca’ for Hackers [1]

Apple Is Lobbying Against Your Right to Repair iPhones, New York State Records Confirm [2]

[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pgxgpg/apple-tells-lawmak...

[2] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nz85y7/apple-is-lobbying-...

Re:Apple expands parts access to more independent repair bus... by dpkonofa on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:20AM (#20844588)
That's the problem, though. Everything is coming from vice.com and all the search results are flooded with those same links and blogs linking to those links. It's nearly impossible to find any relevant information now outside of something published by vice.com and they, unfortunately, are not unbiased in the slightest. Motherboard, who is cited in all those articles, is the parent company of vice.com.