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Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by taneq on Thursday August 29, 2019 @12:31AM (#20826707)
> The manufacturers noticed that helmet sales were declining, and all of a sudden “new science” appeared with a theory about concussions being caused by brain rotation and MIPS technology helps prevent that.

> There isn’t an ethical test for blunt force trauma in real life conditions, and bike crashes are very rarely reported if they don’t send the rider to the hospital.

There's one ethical source of data - televised bike races. Surely there are enough crashes recorded in publicly accessible videos to provide a fairly representative sample of how a human head moves when the helmet it's wearing hits the road.

> They can get away with it because it’s such an easy marketing sell- most people think their life is worth more than $250, so any helmet tech is a bet on the order of Pascal’s wager.

It's exactly the same with motorcycle helmets. You can get a DOT approved helmet for $150, but the general perception in the community is "if you have a $150 head, wear a $150 helmet". Then everyone pays $800 for helmets designed to European standards which are meant for racing, and give dubious benefit if any at normal road-going speeds (eg. see https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/automobiles/27SNELL.html).

Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by dharmab on Thursday August 29, 2019 @02:58AM (#20827330)
> You can get a DOT approved helmet for $150, but the general perception in the community is "if you have a $150 head, wear a $150 helmet".

This is absolutely not the modern perception. The modern perception is that DOT is a joke and that a $120 SNELL or ECE helmet is better than a $500 DOT helmet.

Also, your statement about "european standards meant for racing" is nonsense. ECE is a standard for street use, and SNELL is an American standard.

Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by perl4ever on Saturday August 31, 2019 @02:47PM (#20848099)
I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere the argument that because Snell standards involve a higher speed impact, that there might be a tradeoff and they would be less cushiony for a lower speed one. So maybe more stringent standards are not necessarily better; it depends on what standard is the most realistic wrt the average crash.
Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by dharmab on Saturday August 31, 2019 @10:28PM (#20850189)
Both are better than DOT which is an absolutely useless standard.

https://youtu.be/0BUyp3HX8cY

Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by nradov on Thursday August 29, 2019 @12:42AM (#20826746)
Most of the crashes I've seen in televised pro races were shot from only a single angle some distance away, and often with obstructed sight lines. So I'm skeptical that those videos will give us useful data on head movement.
Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by piquadrat on Thursday August 29, 2019 @02:06AM (#20827066)
Also, pros crash differently than your typical bike commuter or recreational cyclist. For one, there's a large difference in speed (45+ kph for pros, half of that or less for your typical commuter - somewhat negated by the e-bike boom). Next, pros in televised races don't have to deal with oncoming traffic, so head-on collisions are a non-factor. And lastly, pros know how to crash (tuck in, roll over, dissipate energy over a distance), while non-pros tend to tense up in a crash situation.

There's probably other ways in which pros crash differently, making them a less than ideal sample of the overall cycling population.

Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by taneq on Thursday August 29, 2019 @03:08AM (#20827378)
True, but it'd at least help to verify what sort of helmet would best protect pros and semi-pros. I'm sure there are plenty of keen amateur cyclists who often ride in similar conditions.

And, on the other hand, cyclists who are casual enough to crash very differently to the pros probably wouldn't be looking up in-depth analyses of bike crashes when choosing a helmet either. They'll just buy the second cheapest one.

Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by flyinglizard on Thursday August 29, 2019 @05:26AM (#20828012)
It's the other way around. ECE standards are meant for lower speed crashes than the American standards. SNELL is the racing standard. Nevertheless, then comes along someone like (SHARP)[https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/] and performs helmet tests with objective ratings and you see that all helmets vary, regardless of standards.

Because there's no one way to crash, there's hardly one way to test. Buy the most expensive helmet you can afford, more likely than not that it's a better product.

Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by dharmab on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:48AM (#20836629)
And then you have companies like Arai that have internal standards that arguably exceed SNELL but score low on SHARP due to differences in design criteria.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/shoei-vs-arai-helmets

Re:Bontrager’s WaveCel material more effective at preventing... by vasco on Thursday August 29, 2019 @02:19AM (#20827120)
DOT certification is the biggest joke in safety there is. To start, companies self-certify. To continue, watch this: https://youtu.be/0BUyp3HX8cY