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Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by 9nGQluzmnq3M on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:39AM (#20807434)
Oh yes you can: men have testosterone, so they're more aggressive, which turns out to translate to asking for more pay raises more often and changing jobs more quickly if unhappy with their pay. Hey presto, a biological basis for unequal pay. Now obviously this doesn't explain everything about unequal pay -- but it would be foolish to ignore entirely, no?
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by cygx on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:42AM (#20807454)
Nurture can trump nature, though: There are matrilineal societies where competitiveness is considered a feminine trait.

As is often the case, it's not simply either/or.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by jplayer01 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:55AM (#20807509)
Okay, what does this have to do with what she said?

> We cannot hope to understand sex and gender until we clarify our attitude toward nature. Sex is a subset to nature. Sex is the natural in man.

She's not saying that biology is the sole factor that determines how we behave. She's saying that we need to understand it and integrate it into our understanding of cultural, psychological, sociological artifacts. Or more importantly, we can't understand them without taking into account biology. I don't see anything wrong here.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by cygx on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:08AM (#20807579)
Nothing wrong with it as long as you avoid the traps of naive essentialism or fallacious appeals to nature.
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by jplayer01 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:11AM (#20807593)
None of which she does.
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by macspoofing on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:51AM (#20807820)
>There are matrilineal societies where competitiveness is considered a feminine trait.

Are we talking about outliers or are we talking about the vast global and historical populations. These kinds of examples usually point to some small tribe in Africa, or some matrilineal or matriarchal property in some civilization (e.g. Spartan inheritance laws) as a counter-example, but miss that you still need to explain why the vast majority of civilizations and societies independently ascribed the same properties to men and women.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by obviuosly on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @07:09AM (#20808256)
This result failed replication in 27 ethnic groups along the matrilineal belt in Central Africa:

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/slowes/files/lowes_competi...

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by depressedpanda on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @07:01AM (#20808217)
> There are matrilineal societies where competitiveness is considered a feminine trait.

Never heard this before. Could you list some examples?

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by cygx on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:10AM (#20809150)
The Khasi people of north-eastern India often get cited as an example:

https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/gend...

See the comment by obviuosly for some caveats.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by emsy on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @07:44AM (#20808519)
"Considered a feminine trait" is nurtured. Whether it is a feminine trait or not is nature and should be derived from observation.
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by cygx on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:06AM (#20809117)
That wasn't the best phrasing on my part. Quoting the abstract[1]:

We use a controlled experiment to explore whether there are gender differences in selecting into competitive environments across two distinct societies: the Maasaiin Tanzania and the Khasi in India. One unique aspect of these societies is that the Maasai represent a textbook example of a patriarchal society, whereas the Khasi are matrilineal. Similar to the extant evidence drawn from experiments executed in Western cultures, Maasai men opt to compete at roughly twice the rate as Maasai women. Interestingly, this result is reversed among the Khasi, where women choose the competitive environment more often than Khasi men, and even choose to compete weakly more often than Maasai men.

[1] https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/gend...

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by ryan-allen on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:13AM (#20807931)
Apparently this is a topic you're not allowed to talk about, even if you can prove it empirically.
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by danharaj on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @10:02AM (#20809647)
We're talking about it right now. What do you mean?