News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by groundlogic on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:17PM (#20783247)
Step 1. Person A makes some piece of software under an open source license. (GPL)

Step 2. This piece of software becomes widely used, primarily since it's open source licensed

Step 3. (Modern variation) Person A feels cheated for not getting rich and creates some kind of drama.

This doesn't make any sense at all, to me.

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by ocdtrekkie on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:22PM (#20783276)
Open sourcing something is deciding to share it. It isn't committing to support it or update it or help you make money with it. It's not shocking people get burnt out by constant harassment by entitled people who demand the developer "support them" for free.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by groundlogic on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:26PM (#20783318)
> Open sourcing something is deciding to share it. It isn't committing to support it or update it or help you make money with it.

Exactly. This and nothing else. I really don't understand why this is so hard to understand.

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by guggle on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:31PM (#20783363)
> This doesn't make any sense at all, to me.

Of course it doesn't, because that's not what is explained. Read again maybe. If anything, the author asks for respect.

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by stjohnswarts on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:51AM (#20785299)
That's not at all what this is about. He didn't want money, he just didn't want to be treated like crap.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by imtringued on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:59PM (#20788258)
Not to be a complete ass or anything, but technically posting a comment on HN REQUIRES you to read the article before spreading complete misinformation.

Your comment completely contradicts everything written in the article. It doesn't make sense to you because you don't want it to make sense to you.

Step 1. The author doesn't use GPL.

Step 2. The author clearly intended wiringPi to have a limited audience. He doesn't want it to become widely used. He intentionally limited support to a handful of hardware devices. It was meant to be used by experienced C programmers.

Step 3 isn't about the author being cheated. Fame or money were never mentioned. The author is overwhelmed with work, whether it is caused by the open source project, a new job or caring for his family doesn't matter.

However there is a special situation happening here that generally only applies to open software projects. The vast majority of the bug reports involve problems that have already been solved in newer versions. This means that even if the author had an infinite amount of time, all of it would be wasted on already solved problems. There is no reason to work on the project anymore since the rate of progress has stalled. The project has entered a zombie stage and then one day the maintainer announces that the project will be shutdown.

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by corndoge on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:19PM (#20783259)
That isn't what the article said at all
[dead]
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by hombre_fatal on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:23PM (#20783287)
So, it's just an uncharitable pot shot when the article is perfectly relatable when taken at face value.

I'd probably even add your mentality, ubiquitous on HN, to his list. People come out of the woodwork to shit on others. It seems even moreso when it's just a hobby project.

You're basically taking one last snipe at him while he exits the theater. For what? Is this what you thought the world needed more of?

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by banana_giraffe on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:27PM (#20783808)
Ages ago, I wrote and maintained some Windows open source stuff. It wasn't GPL, but it was "here's the source code, and a binary version, have fun!". I had a little niche of a certain type of tool in the Windows world, if you searched for how to do a specific thing, my tools would show up.

Most of it included my real name and email address in the executable and DLLs details tab, as well as the source code. I was the top of the little niche, and more than happy to help other developers out there. I'd help users as best as I could, but my tools were mostly geared at developers (though, users never stopped amazing me at clever unintended ways to use things)

The emails I got from this could be broken down into two categories: Actual questions about the tools, including bug reports or problems integrating it into some other project. That was about 5% of the emails I saw. The other 95% was "Program <x> stopped working! I can't find any contact anywhere expect in this one DLL, I demand you help me fix it!"

It was super disheartening, since my attempt to explain my role as someone that provided a tool or library to whoever wrote their application was responded with either "Your name is in this application, I don't care what your role is, you need to help me fix it!", or "If you didn't want to provide support, why is your email here?"

And that's, basically, how I ended up using random combinations of words on sites like this one. Maybe people with a thicker skin can deal with this crap, but I can't anymore.

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by x0x0 on Friday August 23, 2019 @11:49PM (#20785104)
This was so so my experience.

The people that contacted me were, in the majority, some of the most entitled assholes.

I quit reading the email address associated w/ my open source project, and one user tracked down my (then) work email to demand support!

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by stjohnswarts on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:53AM (#20785305)
Learned my lesson. If I release something now I put it under MIT license and add some decent documentation and hopefully the code is well written and commented enough that any half way decent programmer can make use of it. No contact mail, no grief.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by groundlogic on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:48PM (#20783984)
It's super weird for a "developer" to demand assistance from another developer, just because they wrote and published the code, regardless of license.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by banana_giraffe on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:57PM (#20784039)
Sorry if I came of suggesting that. At least in my case the only people demanding support were end-users of applications I didn't write but did use my code. Developers that contacted me were always understanding, with a rare exception, that free stuff got free support.
[dead]
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by Zenst on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:44PM (#20783458)
If you find that annoying then maybe, just maybe you have a small idea how annoyed the author is from people literally abusing his work beyond the scope it was offered and causing all sorts of grief and abuse from people demanding support for a product that he never sold and never even scoped as supported.

Whilst many are great users, who use as intended, just reading his post in full outlines just some of the instances and issues that have caused what was a passion and a hobby project to become a source of abuse and mental anguish. Nobody should have to endure that, more so when they did nothing wrong.

[dead]
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by ziddoap on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:03PM (#20783619)
Produce something of value, for free.

Then, when you start getting 10,000+ e-mails shitting on you for not also doing XYZ for free, because how dare you not, I'll take your opinion with a more open mind.

The author made it fairly clear that this was not just a money situation.

[dead]
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by ziddoap on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:13PM (#20783700)
It's not hypothetical.

>I never intended for wiringPi to be statically linked either – and thanks to the incompetence of many people who have done just this, I’ve had over 10,000 emails from people who upgraded their Pi and found that code stopped working because they were reliant on a system (typically some java/javascript/node or home automation or UPS thing) which had statically linked an older version

My point is, the author intended the project to be used for X. It was used for Y. Author doesn't want to support Y. Author gets bombarded with e-mails complaining they don't support Y. This isn't "suddenly creating drama like this" or "also somehow expecting to make money off this" as you asserted.

Another pertinent part of the article you seem to be skipping is:

>Add to that the people who have “bludgeoned” wiringPi to work on other fruit Pi platforms, but left my name as the contact email …

You claiming the author is just creating drama solely because of money is a gross misreading of the situation.

[dead]
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by ziddoap on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:29PM (#20783823)
Were you not the one who said

groundlogic 52 minutes ago | parent | flag | favorite | on: WiringPi – deprecated

I'm a bit annoyed about people running popular open source projects suddenly creating drama like this

Followed with

but also somehow expecting to make money off this

To which I replied

The author made it fairly clear that this was not just a money situation.

To which you replied

What's your point?

And I said that my point was that this isn't about money? Or am I just going crazy?

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by inferiorhuman on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:21PM (#20783746)
What's your point? What do you want to say?

The point, and the reason I've downvoted you, is that Gordon clearly spelled out that his frustration is not about money. Gordon's clearly articulated frustration is in having to deal with demanding and abusive users. By pursuing the argument that Gordon's angry about making an insufficient amount of money you're perpetuating a strawman argument.

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by groundlogic on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:30PM (#20783831)
You just replied to a hypothetical case, with a concrete case. This makes no sense.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by guardiangod on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:22PM (#20783749)
The point is, regardless of whether the author chooses GPL or MIT, he should not be subjected to abusive 'support requests'.

No one deserved to be verbally abuse from total strangers for things beyond his control.

Yes, the author could simply ignore the requests. But we ought to aim higher than 'silently accept the harassment and do nothing,' for the betterment of everyone.

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by groundlogic on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:26PM (#20783792)
I fully agree with you.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by ziddoap on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:31PM (#20783835)
>If the code was used in an illegal way in terms of licenses; I feel for the author. Otherwise not really.

It seems like you only think the author has a right to be frustrated if the license is used in an illegal way, not if they license is followed but the users are abusive.

[dead]
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by ziddoap on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:43PM (#20783945)
Ah, sorry. I didn't realize that something you said less than half an hour ago, in the same thread, in the same context, has no business being quoted.

Apologies.

Who would of thought things you said previously about a subject might be brought up later in the conversation?

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by dang on Saturday August 24, 2019 @05:52PM (#20789941)
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by groundlogic on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:52PM (#20784009)
Don't feel bad. I've learned a lesson; never enter an open source discussion with GPL developers.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by dang on Saturday August 24, 2019 @05:52PM (#20789944)
Please don't post unsubstantive comments or get involved in flamewars here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:WiringPi – deprecated by kortilla on Saturday August 24, 2019 @07:21AM (#20786533)
No, the lesson is to not say stuff in a discussion and then refuse to discuss it.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by stjohnswarts on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:51AM (#20785302)
Are you DanielK?
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by itsbruce on Monday August 26, 2019 @01:47PM (#20802020)
That is not what the article said. You are being just the kind of asshole the author complains about.
Re:WiringPi – deprecated by varjag on Saturday August 24, 2019 @08:42AM (#20786807)
I see some people can't just wrap their mind around doing something not for profiting off others.