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Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by fourstar on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:45PM (#20759471)
Those of you (US) with large stock/cash positions: what are you doing to weather the (inevitable) storm? Feels like we’re in the doom and gloom media phase. I suspect lots of people will start forgetting within the next 6 months in which the stock market will go sideways, until the next catalyst which is the US election cycle.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by rifung on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:51PM (#20759547)
> Those of you (US) with large stock/cash positions: what are you doing to weather the (inevitable) storm

I follow the traditional advice of doing nothing and not trying to time the market.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by twoheadedboy on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:07PM (#20759735)
Yeah I get that. What about for people like me who are trying to enter the market? I'm wondering if it's worth it to wait and see, or if I should just not worry too much and invest now anyway.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by icelancer on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:07PM (#20759746)
The next $1000 I put into my retirement accounts is no different than your first $1000.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by notJim on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:36PM (#20760111)
Time in market beats timing the market.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by czbond on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:07PM (#20761138)
True, but time in market with educated and not naive timing beats "time in market". Edit: "naive", and that I simply mean to time ETF payments with awareness and possibly technical indicators.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by mywittyname on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:24PM (#20759966)
On average, buying now is cheaper than buying later. And you can't time the market.

You're going to be contributing to this for years and years, so where the market was at when you invested your first dollar will be meaningless.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by astura on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:22PM (#20759946)
No, its absolutely not "worth" it to "wait and see" unless you have proven clairvoyance. Just invest for the future when you have the money to invest - stock market should be for the long term.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by wil421 on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @03:00PM (#20760402)
Minimum 3 months of savings, pay off high interest debt, and max out 401k or at very least max out your employer match. Max out employee stock purchase programs and sell quickly.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by my_username_is_ on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:48PM (#20759505)
>what are you doing to weather the (inevitable) storm?

Stay invested in equities. Keep some cash on hand as an emergency fund in case you lose your job, but just don't sell your stocks when the market is down. Stay diversified and stay in the market.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by mooreds on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:54PM (#20759578)
> Stay diversified and stay in the market.

Agree 100%. Always worth noting that you should have an asset allocation based on your risk profile. If you need the money to pay for your kids college and it is less than 5 years away, don't have it in stocks!

Beyond that, equity allocation makes sense. You want to walk the line between not being able to sleep at night because the market is cratering and not being able to sleep at night in 30 years because you don't have enough money saved to retire the way you want to.

Disclaimer: I like this stuff, but I am not a financial advisor.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by jumbopapa on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:53PM (#20759570)
Stay the course. Don't try to time the market. You just need to avoid the irrational decision to pull your money out of the market because you'll most likely get it wrong and be worse off.

We've had 10 years of prosperity which should have been ample time to secure an emergency fund to weather the storm.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by czbond on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:12PM (#20761179)
If you have stock gains that you need, and can't live without - consider your exit price, and perform proper portfolio maintenance.

Recession indicators have been in play for about 2 years. If nothing else, be much more aware of your high downside risk - and at least scenario model if we go down to multi-decade lows. Specifically in any items with negative EPShare, or not necessities. We're in the cycle now that hits equities -> mid-consumer spending -> business spending -> consumer spending -> real estate. Don't consider the specifics of this message, but the generalities and apply to life

Prepare for years of lower rates of return; If you own property, you will be able to re-fi in a few years to some very low rates. Cash is king for fire sales - lots of people will be going super broke the next 5 years. House prices will de-value enough, so don't buy property for the next 1-3 years. Stock market can revert to 50% of current values.

Edit: used this technique to purchase my first house, firesale. Will do it again this round, along with other lessons learned ;)

Edit 2: Listen to your own companies investor calls (if large enough) - you can predict upcoming layoffs. If you need a new job, do it now before wages stagnate or deflate some. Place yourself in a line of business that is close to a revenue stream of the business, they're rarely cut.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by lbotos on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:32PM (#20762064)
> House prices will de-value enough, so don't buy property for the next 1-3 years.

I don't follow. Are you saying don't buy until till the drop or, don't buy when it drops?

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by czbond on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:01PM (#20762315)
Each house market would act differently, some with a depressed recovery, some a whipsaw recovery. Watch your own market as the rule applies "last to go up, first to go down". Coastal markets will drop enough, interior less. Here is a good Case Shiller analysis of prices over time for markets. Buy when it gets near last periods low prices (do own analysis, don't rely on my flippant date mention though...).

https://wolfstreet.com/2019/08/01/housing-bubbles-chicago-da...

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by overcast on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:08PM (#20759760)
Continue investing passively through your 401k, Roth, and HSA. But start spending less, and sock away that extra cash into high yield bank accounts. That way you're investing for your future, while covering any emergency needs in case of job loss. I've been working my way up to a 6-9 month buffer for the last year.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by icelancer on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:09PM (#20759778)
>> start spending less

This seems like overly simple advice but it's the best advice you can listen to if you think there is a storm coming. Cutting spending and allocating that money to cash reserves while keeping your usual investment strategy (401k / Roth IRA / etc) is the most effective thing you can do.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by whatshisface on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:53PM (#20759568)
If the capital flight away from the rest of the world is bad enough, US markets could even go up during a global recession. That's the thing about the stock market, it goes up and down and you can never guess which.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by astura on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:54PM (#20759583)
A cash emergency fund is there to help you weather financial storms, that's its sole purpose.

I have a six figure US stock position and I'm not going to change anything I do as long as I remain employed. Save for retirement/long term in the stock market, save for big ticket items in cash (I have a new car fund, for example). If I lose my job I'll have to stop contributions until I get another job. If I remain unemployed longer term I'd have to tighten my belt on frivolous purchases.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by icelancer on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:07PM (#20759740)
>> what are you doing to weather the (inevitable) storm

Investing every two weeks into my standard allocation that I've decided on, rebalancing when necessary. Anything beyond that is speculation. Especially the concept of an inevitable storm coming. When, how, and where that happens is not something too many people know.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by rchaud on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:15PM (#20759861)
Look at the S&P 500 index from early 2008 to say 2012. Governments will enact policies to prop up the stock and bond markets, as they always have.

Our entire civilization is held up on the promise that financial market indices go up over time, except for temporary recessionary periods. We just accept that retirees cashing out at the wrong time will be victims of 'collateral damage' during these 'market corrections'.

Everything from job growth, to the pension funds that you contribute to, to the municipal bonds governments issue to fund projects, rests on this one core assumption.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by f00zz on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:20PM (#20759921)
People who bought the Nikkei index in the early 1990s are still waiting for the correction to end...
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by mywittyname on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:30PM (#20760042)
https://dqydj.com/nikkei-return-calculator-dividend-reinvest...

After dividends, you broke even after inflation (-0.096% return) if you dumped your life savings into the Nikkei in Jan 1990 and never invested another dime.

But if you kept investing incrementally over the years, like most people do, then annual returns went to 2.5% after inflation in 1995-2000, to 6.5% in 2005 and 9.4% in 2010.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by rchaud on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:38PM (#20760152)
Good point. The Japan case is a weird one. There's a Paul Krugman essay from the '90s that argues it's partially due to a historically high savings rate among Japanese consumers[0]. A good chunk of their boom was export-driven after all.

Loosening monetary policy to fight deflationary pressure in the '90s also didn't seem to work because interest rates were already near zero. I think the US is different because the benchmark Fed rate is 2.25% now after many years of near-zero rates. So there's room to cut rates if needed.

[0]: http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/nikkei.html

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by f00zz on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @03:20PM (#20760614)
Interestingly, it could also be argued that the breakneck economic growth that some Asian countries went through (in the case of Japan, at least until the 1990s) can be partially attributed to their high savings rate. [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrod%E2%80%93Domar_model

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by bduerst on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:21PM (#20759932)
I've been trimming positions to increase cash on hand, as much as possible these past three months. I'll likely put it in some of the more stable industry ETFs moving forward, and won't bother with shorting index funds since we don't know exactly when/where the major hits will come.

My take is that this trade war is irrationally based on animosity (even if the sentiment behind it is rational) so my hypothesis is when the tariffs are finally enacted you'll start to see a bigger shift as fund managers figure out that yes, the trade war is here.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by WhompingWindows on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:57PM (#20759625)
Same as always: improve skill-set to 1) live more cost-efficiently 2) provide more value at work. 1) definitely leads to better savings rate over time, 2) probably does.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by f00zz on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:58PM (#20759633)
Not in the US nor have a large $$$ position, but as someone who dabbles a bit in options trading on the side, I've got to say: this volatility is great.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by misiti3780 on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:05PM (#20759715)
continue to put x% of my salary into vanguard ETFs, and store the rest in cash. you cannot time the market.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by rchaud on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:23PM (#20759959)
I'm using Questrade, and because I have a self-directed account, I need to put in a buy order manually 1x/month. Is that the way it's normally done?

I used to have a mutual fund through my bank, where I'd set a monthly amount and they'd automatically deposit that into the fund from my chequing account. I decided to try something different since the reporting tools available through the online banking system were very basic.

Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by overcast on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:35PM (#20760090)
Cheap Vanguard funds like VFIAX (S&P500) or VTSAX(Total US stock market). No need for managed funds that charge over 5 basis points, you're just wasting money. Then sock away cash in a no fee online high yield banking account like Ally or Marcus.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by eikenberry on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @01:57PM (#20759622)
The market goes up and down. You invest for the long term and ignore the volatility.
Re:Germany for First Time Sells 30-Year Bonds Offering Negat... by Ambele on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:09PM (#20759773)
I'm reducing margin (borrowed money for investing) to zero or near-zero. I'm also building up a savings account. Some of the Democrats could very well push for a pre-election recession in order to make Trump look less re-electable.