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Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by melling on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:28PM (#20751727)
"In 2017, a study showed that scientists in Italy began citing themselves more heavily after a controversial 2010 policy was introduced that required academics to meet productivity thresholds to be eligible for promotion"

Cobra Effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by tomtomistaken on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:49PM (#20751965)
More like Goodhart‘s law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by austinjp on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:04PM (#20752123)
"What gets measured gets treasured."
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by SI_Rob on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @06:34PM (#20752901)
and the corollary, "the uncountable is of no account"
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by jjtheblunt on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:13PM (#20752216)
I'd never seen that, and it reminds me of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle somehow.
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by marcosdumay on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:43PM (#20752522)
Heisenberg's principle says that when you measure one thing, you lose track of others. I guess it's kind of complementary to this (except that it applies to very different things, obviously).
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:43PM (#20751897)
I don't see that it's the Cobra effect. Did it actively make them less productive?
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by HarryHirsch on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:51PM (#20751979)
Publication standards are different between disciplines. Traditionally, a materials chemist publishes many times more papers than a structural biologist. With a metric like that, you run whole sub-disciplines out of town.
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by Gibbon1 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:30PM (#20752406)
Reminds me of a theater professor I know who was having trouble meeting the new rigorous rules for tenure.

Publish? What and where exactly?

Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by duskwuff on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:58PM (#20752063)
If it means that some academics are choosing to cite their own papers rather than keeping up to date on the literature of their field, there's likely to be some potential insights missed.
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by lonelappde on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:17PM (#20752261)
There's no reason to assume that adding a self cite affects how much they read others.
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by usrusr on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @12:32PM (#20758838)
Not self-citing in incremental work would be like a software team erasing commit history at the beginning of each sprint, claiming that it's all new code. The post-metric amount of self citing might be less misleading than what they did before.
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by melling on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:26PM (#20752364)
People who are rewarded are the people most cited, even if they are citing themselves.

Think that’s producing the best scientific results?

Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by reallydude on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:32PM (#20752433)
> Think that’s producing the best scientific results?

That's a strawman. The answer you were looking for is, "I don't know". I don't know either.

Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by melling on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:46PM (#20752547)
I’d say it makes Publish or perish even worse:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publish_or_perish

Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by lonelappde on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:17PM (#20752269)
Is being cited a productivity metric?
Re:Hundreds of extreme self-citing scientists revealed in ne... by __lm__ on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:44AM (#20755020)
In Italy it is one of the three metrics used. The others are the number of published papers and the h-index.

This is the table of thresholds for associate professorship ("II Fascia") and full professorship ("I Fascia"): http://abilitazione.miur.it/public/documenti/2018/Tabelle_Va... "Numero articoli" is "number of papers", "Numero citazioni" is "number of citations", and "Indice H" is "h-index". The thresholds are different for each research area (e.g., "INFORMATICA" is "computer science").

The topic is actually a little bit more complex, since looking at the metrics is only one step of the process.