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Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by owaislone on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:29PM (#20701452)
Here come the apologists. How can such a step be justified when the 12 million people did not vote for the said election manifesto? It's like saying UK is justified in annexing all of Ireland because people in England voted for it.
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by tech_dreamer on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:35PM (#20701475)
If you are not aware please read the following article to get a complete picture - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by iamshs on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:43PM (#20701532)
Oh god, Wikipedia has been taken over. Just look at the language and sources. All actions by India have been sugar coated with flowery language. Governor’s rule and Marshall Law is written as, “This allowed Governor Jagmohan to rule directly”. Not mentioning the fact that he dismissed a democratically elected government on a ruse.
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by statguy on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:38PM (#20701854)
A more brutal and widespread ethnic cleansing, which India conveniently likes to brush under the carpet, was that of Muslims from the Jammu in 1947. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Jammu_massacres
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by selimthegrim on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:44PM (#20701896)
Mehr Chand Mahajan quoted in that article went on to Supreme Court of India. 370 allowed 100K of those refugees to be rehabilitated. When there was the possibility of more returning in 1980s, Indira Gandhi showed up and accused NC of bringing in 'anti-nationals'. But please, Modi bhakts, tell us more about how 370 isn't necessary.
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by sbmthakur on Thursday August 15, 2019 @02:40AM (#20703099)
> But please, Modi bhakts, tell us more about how 370 isn't necessary.

Why are you resorting to name-calling? Please read the guidelines again.

Abrogation of 370 happened because it was a temporary provision, allowed regressive practices like Triple Talaq and Child marriage, prevented legitimate inheritance. There are many other reasons that Amit Shah stated in his address in the Parliament. I request you to watch it if you haven't.

Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by eklavya on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @11:44PM (#20702411)
"But please, Modi bhakts", treat differing opinions with a bit of tolerance and respect, shall we?
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by selimthegrim on Thursday August 15, 2019 @07:19AM (#20704170)
Taking a page from Indira Gandhi and calling Muslim refugees anti national (preventing rehabilitation) is not worthy of respect
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by selimthegrim on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:11PM (#20701705)
How about the part where in 1986 75% of preprofessional admits, government jobs, etc were going to the minority community? Isn’t that a failure of government at some level? Do you expect that to persist in a democracy or that India should defend that setup? None of this is to be construed as an attack on KPs.
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by owaislone on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:45PM (#20701540)
The whole world knows about this. I'm not sure how this is a reply to what I said. Also, https://scroll.in/latest/933560/j-k-group-of-kashmiri-pandit...
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by selimthegrim on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:20PM (#20701747)
I think Prem Nath Bazaz' daughters were out protesting in Delhi too
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by squirrelicus on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:41PM (#20701520)
Be careful: this is the exact same line of reasoning the alt-right uses to conclude ethnostates.

Or if you want to take the intersectionalist view to its conclusion: Maybe we should have a White President to govern white people, and a Black President to govern black people, and a Muslim President to govern Muslims, and a Fat President to govern fat people. Wait a second, what about fat white Muslims, shouldn't they have a different President than fat black Muslims? Degenerate down only a handful of dimensions over which people vary, and you'll need a President for every individual. Wait a second, we just rediscovered the concept of individual sovereignty.

Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by owaislone on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:59PM (#20701627)
I think you misunderstood my comment or I failed to explain what I was trying to say. My point was that any nation state unilaterally revoking the autonomy of a region is undemocratic unless the people of that region vote for it. Imagine the Spanish military marching into Catalonia, shutting down all means of communication, arresting most Catalan politicians, lawyers and activists, and then unilaterally dismantling the Catalan parliament and constitution, just because people in Madrid felt so. I can't imagine anyone on HN trying to justify such a hypothetical event. I don't understand how anyone can justify this.
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by jnbiche on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:52PM (#20701935)
> Imagine the Spanish military marching into Catalonia, shutting down all means of communication, arresting most Catalan politicians, lawyers and activists, and then unilaterally dismantling the Catalan parliament and constitution, just because people in Madrid felt so

I can't tell if you're being ironic. Because many similar things happened to Catalonia two years ago: arresting Catalan leaders, suspending parliamentary rule and autonomy, violently suppressing protests and dissent, censoring the Internet, imposing martial law.

Many of Catalonia's political leadership and activists are still in jail, and facing years of prison: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/12-catalan-leaders-fa... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41678086

The only thing that categorically did not happen from your list was an incursion by the Spanish military into Catalonia, although even that seemed possible for a period of time.

I agree with your stance re: autonomy, but Catalonia was a rather poor example.

Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by owaislone on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @10:02PM (#20701974)
I know similar things happened in Catalonia but no where near to this extent. AFAIR, Catalonian parliament was planning to hold a referendum on it's own and the Spanish police used force against protestors. That said it was no where as bad as what India has done. If Catalonia was cut off from the rest of the world, military deployed everywhere and no voices could be heard from them, Europe and the test of the would would go crazy over it. Also, don't forget Indian forces history in Kashmir.

May be Scotland and the UK would have been a better example but I wanted to cite something that felt a bit more real and relatable.

Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by jnbiche on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @10:09PM (#20702002)
> Also, don't forget Indian forces history in Kashmir.

Yes, this is the major difference between the two regions. But in terms of recent events, the main difference between Kashmir and Catalonia -- other than the lack of military involvement in Catalonia -- is the greater degree of oppression in Kashmir. Similar strategies and tactics were used by the more powerful polity in both crises.

> May be Scotland and the UK would have been a better example

Yes, I originally wrote that in my comment, but deleted it because it seemed too rambling. In any case, I wouldn't hold up the reaction of the Spanish government to Catalonia's moves toward greater autonomy to be some kind of democratic ideal.

Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by kbad1000 on Thursday August 15, 2019 @12:33AM (#20702607)
And more importantly Catalan is a economically output generating region and not a consumer.
Re:India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access by squirrelicus on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:15PM (#20701721)
Let's see, a challenge!

Just kidding, I don't view the world that way. But I will highlight that, historically, it's been common to have various degrees of autonomy across nation states. Even today, Californians are consistently choosing less autonomy than other U.S. states.

But I digress. Another digression might involve suggesting undemocratic things are not implicitly bad, even if the rule of democracy is better. Putting down rebellions, for example. Or increasing police presence in high crime areas where criminals, or those scared of them, wouldn't vote for it.

But more to the core of the point, I'm not sure it's helpful to proliferate the perspective that variation in autonomy (or standard of living or what have you) is primarily a consequence of group identity without extraordinarily convincing reasons to believe so. Doing so opens the door to suggesting that that ought to be how it is, if the Other is, in your your view, trying to reduce your autonomy. An example where this might be justified is the literal concentration camps that the Chinese continue to impose on their religious and ethnic minorities.

The American culture is starting to see everything through group identity colored goggles, and that spells complete destruction for the country and our ability to reason about diplomacy.