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Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by vorpalhex on Monday August 12, 2019 @09:50AM (#20675359)
> a race to the bottom and it's a losing battle for the customer

How dare those customers get to have access to cheap food! They should only be able to buy organic, local approved veggies from their local overpriced grocery store!

France didn't want to import US Beef (fair), the US threatened to not import French cheese in retaliation (seemingly also rather fair).

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by coldtea on Monday August 12, 2019 @09:58AM (#20675440)
>How dare those customers get to have access to cheap food!

How dare customers want to have access to healthy AND cheap food. They don't get to chose both!

And what's with the wages "race to the bottom" ensuring everybody will only be able to get cheap food - if at all?

>France didn't want to import US Beef (fair), the US threatened to not import French cheese in retaliation (seemingly also rather fair).

Yes, fair as well. So?

(Although one is a crappy, unhealthy beef grown in abhorrent conditions, the other is high quality cheese).

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by vorpalhex on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:50AM (#20675904)
One is a cheap high protein food wildly available produced by well paid workers, the other is a very expensive geographically protected cheese product.

You may not like US beef, and you don't have to eat it, and you're probably well off enough that you get to make that choice. Protecting a domestic cheese production probably doesn't increase food availability for the poor - nor is that domestic cheese production some health food.

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by coldtea on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:09AM (#20676099)
Sorry, I don't want crappy "food for the poor" and healthy "food for the rich". I find this dystopian, and a false dichotomy.

And those advocating are usually those "well enough" that don't have to suffer the "food for the poor" themselves.

>Protecting a domestic cheese production probably doesn't increase food availability for the poor - nor is that domestic cheese production some health food.

As part of the typical French diet, as is its use in France (and Europe), it's much healthier than the kind of crap passed for food to the poor in the US, or the fads peddled year after year as some "miracle food" to richer consumers (quinoa, chia, kale, and such).

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by orwin on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:16PM (#20676824)
Sorry, a bit of-topic, but is kale that expensive? In France it's like twice the price of romanesco (despite being harder to prepare tbh) but still pretty cheap (like 6€/kg).
Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by coldtea on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:51PM (#20677990)
Well, most comparable (and equally healthy) greens are 1/2 to 1/5 the price.
Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by pixl97 on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:16AM (#20675587)
Yea, let's till under every square acre of land to produce massive amounts of corn that we turn into animal feed extremely inefficiently, oh and pump out gigatons of HFCS fattening up the world around us.
Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by JoeAltmaier on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:21AM (#20675637)
Lets understand why we're here. Corn was first to be hybridized and resulting seed marketed. As yields grew, farming became more stable and farmers less poor. Corn got cheap and many commercial applications (starch, syrup, protein, fibre) seized on it as a practical source for many products.

Like VHS vs Betamax, sure there are better choices for food and commercial uses. But corn won, won early and won big. It'd cost trillions to switch to something else now.

So complain all we like; still we find ourselves in the same place. Corn is king.

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by davidwitt415 on Monday August 12, 2019 @04:18PM (#20679503)
You are missing a key factor: government subsidies, which incentivize maximum corn production. Cut the subsidies and the desired change would happen; we would still have corn to eat, but much less HFCS and Ethanol (another corn product that causes more harm than good).
Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by bdauvergne on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:04AM (#20676040)
Strangely it did not happen in France[1], we do not use as much corn sub-products in our agriculture and food, I think it's mainly used for feeding our poultry; still a bad idea as corn is not really adapted to our climate (not enough tropical rain I suppose as corn is a tropical plant coming from Mexico), most of the farmers crying when there are water restrictions are corn farmers in France.

Biggest french region cultivating corn is Les Landes which was a big swamp before the 18/19th century, maybe because it's more adapted to corn as it rains often (oceanic climate) but is hotter than Brittany.

[1]: https://www.agro.basf.fr/fr/cultures/mais/basf_agro_et_la_fi...

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by JoeAltmaier on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:15AM (#20676163)
Unless you drink Pepsi? Its 1/3 corn syrup.
Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by distances on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:01PM (#20677370)
I don't think it is in Europe? The recipes vary a bit according to tastes, so I'd assume sugar is from beet in European soft drinks. Wouldn't make much sense to import syrup for such a bulk product.
Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by lm28469 on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:17AM (#20675596)
> France didn't want to import US Beef (fair), the US threatened to not import French cheese in retaliation (seemingly also rather fair).

The local shop didn't want the mafia's "protection" (fair), the mafia killed the shop owner (seemingly also rather fair).

More seriously I don't think allowing foreign entities to destroy your local means of productions brings any good in the long term. Once your local producers are out of business you're essentially relying on the goodwill of some for profit companies to not increase the price of their products, or you're at the mercy of "The Market™️". Especially for something as fundamental as food.

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by vorpalhex on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:52AM (#20675920)
If your local means of production means either forcing other people to buy it, or keeping the price of food artificially inflated, maybe your local means of production isn't real great.

This isn't the mafia killing a shop owner for not buying them. This is your customer leaving because they don't like your prices.

You don't get to force people to do business with you.

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by lm28469 on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:03PM (#20676684)
> keeping the price of food artificially inflated, maybe your local means of production isn't real great.

Really makes you think about how Europe did for thousands of years before our great American saviors helped us. Local food wasn't expensive before globalisation, talk to your grandparents you'll see how different things were not so long ago.

> This is your customer leaving because they don't like your prices.

You do understand that when the market is not flooded with cheap subsidised alternatives that issue doesn't exist ? Fresh/local products were not a niche market a few decades ago, it was simply all that was available. You didn't have to buy cheap bananas from costa rica because you simply didn't have access to bananas, so you bought local apples &c. you couldn't buy cheap beef from the US because all the meat available was local and priced so that people could afford it.

> You don't get to force people to do business with you.

But apparently you get to say "Accept our subpar products or we will make you pay!", and I genuinely fail to see the difference in practice. If this isn't some form of abuse of authority I don't know what it is.

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by tpush on Monday August 12, 2019 @03:20PM (#20678892)
>> keeping the price of food artificially inflated, maybe your local means of production isn't real great. >Really makes you think about how Europe did for thousands of years before our great American saviors helped us. Local food wasn't expensive before globalisation, talk to your grandparents you'll see how different things were not so long ago.

So what? French consumers choosing American import meat over locally sourced meat is not America's fault. The parent's point totally stands, whether you like it or not. If French consumers have a choice between locally sourced meat and imported American one, and the majority buys the latter, then that's obviously on the French.

I mean, think what the alternative even means: The majority of French consumers would choose American meat, yet a minority of French farmers would rather disallow their own people to have a choice. If these farmers are so integral to French society, then surely that same society would buy locally sourced meat. But they apparently wouldn't/don't.

>> You don't get to force people to do business with you. >But apparently you get to say "Accept our subpar products or we will make you pay!", and I genuinely fail to see the difference in practice. If this isn't some form of abuse of authority I don't know what it is.

That's literally just normal trade between countries. France does that just like every other entity involved in global trade that has to keep its own interests in mind(meaning all of them.)

Re:20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's ... by orwin on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:31PM (#20676994)
But you force them to compete with you. And this kills people as well:

France does not have as much available land as the US does, we cannot squander it away. We can't afford a spill like the one in WV from a few year back, it would kill hundreds of people. and destroy a high percentage of our lands. I'm pretty sure the spill have never made to the national headline: that's how much land you have. In France we would talk about this for years.

Our farms are way closer from the cities than yours, we cannot afford to feed our beefs and chickens with antibiotics and just hope for the best and pray it will have no impact.

Please understand that we don't have the same population concentration, nor the same money to hide/fix the issues caused by the farming industry.