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Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by jedberg on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:38PM (#20657149)
Or to put it another way: people who were dumb enough to use an app to cheat on their spouse were also dumb enough to get caught cheating in other aspects of their life.

They got their data from the Ashley Maddison hack and then cross referenced that with police records of people who got caught. I'm not sure this is a very valid study.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by notafraudster on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:20PM (#20657495)
The study appears to have a valid design, subject to some questions not answered in the Bloomberg coverage. I think the more reasonable question is what exactly the design is measuring.

Using the Ashley Madison data is basically what we would call a "reduced form estimate". The idea is that someone in the Ashley Madison data is more likely (or at least not less likely) than a comparable individual not in the Ashley Madison data to cheat on their spouse. They would like to measure whether or not people actually cheat, but they can't, so they measure this instead. This kind of reduced form estimate is a fairly common thing when you can't measure actual treatment compliance, but you can measure an "invitation to treat". We, in fact, know that Ashley Madison wasn't actually used for cheating because there were no (zero) real women on the site. Extensive analyses of the data leak suggest basically that men signed up and were faced with phony bots. But the idea should still be that the choice to sign up on Ashley Madison reveals an attempt to cheat.

The other major challenge for the design is that the control group of CEOs need to have what we would think are baseline similar propensity to commit fraud etc in all respects except for the choice to cheat. So, at the very least I would want to do a matching, weighting, or propensity score design that accounts for differential company characteristics (sector, size, age, any characteristics we would a priori affect propensity to engage in financial malfeasance.) If what we learn is that people who run shady payday loan companies also cheat on their spouses, then this is maybe not interesting. But if what we learn is that among F2000 blue chip companies in similar sectors, cheating spouses are more likely to be cheating CEOs, this is more interesting, right?

I agree with you that it's possible that the degree of difficulty / competence factor might be a confounder. Probably they could compensate for this by looking at something other that rate of conviction for malfeasance, rather by modelling types / degrees of malfeasance and degree of difficulty for getting caught.

Finally, the casual inference here is impossible. So it's possible that they have a good design to answer a question they're not asking. I would assume the default assumption is not that cheating on one's spouse causes one to cheat on financial things, but rather that both are outcomes which flow from an underlying propensity for deceit. In this case, the main takeaway is that early indicators of deceit may allow us to head off or catch financial malfeasance. That's interesting, but maybe not the exact question they're asking.

I'd be really interested in reading the final thing because I could see it going either way. I think it's an interesting proposal for a design. Would love to see a pre-print

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by JimboOmega on Friday August 09, 2019 @05:03PM (#20658240)
> We, in fact, know that Ashley Madison wasn't actually used for cheating because there were no (zero) real women on the site.

There were numerous bots and fake accounts to attempt to make it seem as though there were more women on it, and I'm sure the gender ratio was absurd, but I seriously doubt the number was 0.

Wikipedia discussion of the bots : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Madison#Fake_female_bot...

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by AnimalMuppet on Friday August 09, 2019 @05:13PM (#20658294)
I seem to recall reading that the number of real live human females available on Ashley Madison was eleven. (There may have been more human females on there, but they were Ashley Madison employees and not available.)

This is my recollection. I can cite no source for evidence.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by not_a_cop75 on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:59PM (#20657322)
Dumb enough. Just call it what it is - bad character.

There is no person that is so intelligent that he/she can cheat for long and not eventually get caught. If people want to know the truth about a person badly enough, they will.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by jedberg on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:04PM (#20657365)
> There is no person that is so intelligent that he/she can cheat for long and not eventually get caught.

How do you know? Wouldn't the very best never get caught and therefore we'd never know?

How do you explain all of the unsolved crimes?

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by cheeky78 on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:22PM (#20657510)
Because we didn't have the technology and ability to lookup DNA as cheaply or easily 20+ years ago. I expect unsolved crime to continue to go down as our technology gets better.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by moate on Friday August 09, 2019 @05:06PM (#20658261)
But that hasn't been the case. Here's a good example:

https://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-...

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by rolltiide on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:16PM (#20657455)
The President’s foundations would never have been investigated if he didn't run for office.

Getting “caught” so far has not mattered and only resulted in further consolidation of power. Correlating that so far with infidelity, the only takeaway is that you should put all your mistresses under an NDA, which also wouldn’t have come up if he didn’t run for office resulting in the feds raiding his lawyer’s office and indicting the lawyer due to conduct that became part of the national spotlight! These are things that don’t happen, so all you have to assume is that the President wasn't the genius that invented these tactics and merely used tools available.

The main point I am making here is that this is enough information to rationalize proving an absence:

There are many many people like him at least in an even distribution throughout society. Let alone people with a network of enablers.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by xwdv on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:17PM (#20657472)
Turns out, most of the time people never seek to know the truth about a person that badly, so yes, a lot of people cheat and don’t get caught without needing to be too intelligent.

In fact, cheating has little to do with how intelligent you are and how well you are at containerizing different parts of your life so that they never cross. It is ridiculously easy to cheat if you travel a lot on your own.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by darepublic on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:17PM (#20657462)
Bad character that apparently is a decent winning strategy in the game of genetic reproduction. Sometimes evolution feels like a big prisoner's dilemma.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by ixtli on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:02PM (#20657356)
isn't this sorta like proving the absence of something? surely for all the people who got caught having two families, some never did! fwiw, i also don't think its a good measure of intelligence, i just think some people configure their lives in such a way where they're better able to get away with things.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by mc32 on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:11PM (#20657413)
When I read about people like Nicholas Cage, I come to the conclusion the way people manage relationships is only very loosely tied to intelligence, if at all. Not saying he’s super smart or the opposite, but even Einstein had relationship issues.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by austincheney on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:47PM (#20657691)
Narcissism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

See also psychopathy and sociopathy.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by ancorevard on Friday August 09, 2019 @05:50PM (#20658493)
They studied character not intelligence.

Cheating is not associated with low intelligence but with a corrupt character.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by toomuchtodo on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:40PM (#20657172)
But it could be fun to find similar signals with public data and use that to target those folks in their roles for further scrutiny. Insider risk management sort of thing, before it turns into securities fraud.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by jedberg on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:42PM (#20657186)
Oh yeah that Ashley Madison hack is a gold mine for people who want to blackmail others. So if anything the take away from this should be to check and make sure that if any of your employees have important company data, see if they were in that hack.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by toomuchtodo on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:56PM (#20657301)
Not just Ashley Madison. Okcupid. Tinder. Grindr. That group sex site that was just mentioned on HN [1]. Any dating site that is laissez faire about their data and API access (ie all of them) is a trove of information for building a dataset of morally flexible individuals (when correlated against public records).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20650069

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by filoleg on Friday August 09, 2019 @04:07PM (#20657847)
None of those other sites are even similar to Ashley Madison. There is nothing morally wrong with dating using apps or being gay. But I expect most people to agree that cheating is definitely not morally clear.

In fact, the latter ones are so ubiquitous, I think you would be hard-pressed to find a person in a major US city in their 20s who was single for a period of time in the past 5 years and haven't used one of those apps.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by toomuchtodo on Friday August 09, 2019 @04:08PM (#20657854)
The apps alone are not the signal. The app data combined with other data sources is the signal. It can demonstrate intent.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by ambicapter on Friday August 09, 2019 @04:21PM (#20657960)
Intent to what? Date?
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by aidos on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:59PM (#20657320)
Tinder? I’ve never used it but it’s used by a lot of people I know for legitimate dating.
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by toomuchtodo on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:59PM (#20657324)
Tinder profile + public marriage record = possible hit. I know married folk who use Tinder (some ethically non-monogamous, some not so ethically), so some human review in your workflow would be required.

From previous experience consuming public record data sources programmatically, a proof of concept would take no more than a full day of work. I am not suggesting one do this, only that pandora's box is already open.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by inetknght on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:19PM (#20657490)
> * use that to target those folks in their roles for further scrutiny. Insider risk management sort of thing, before it turns into securities fraud.*

Or said in one word: blackmail.

There's no sugar coating it. You'd be collecting data points and analyzing them to pursue your own justice without due process. That's quite a dangerous thing to claim to want to do in the name of "insider risk management".

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by toomuchtodo on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:23PM (#20657526)
Having been responsible for standing up insider risk management protocols and systems in financial services, this usually occurs at high level executive/senior roles and it's part of your employment agreement that data will be collected and evaluated for the purpose (in a similar sense to an overzealous, continuous background check).

I don't support blackmail in any form, full stop. I do want to know if you're going to embezzle millions of dollars before you do, as do shareholders or customers (if you're managing assets) of the organization.

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by hangonhn on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:01PM (#20657347)
Isn't that sort of the premise of China's social score/credit experiment?
Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by Bud on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:09PM (#20657400)
Also the premise of a Black Mirror episode.

And soon, it will the premise of everyday life in the US. Whoopee!

Re:CEOs Who Cheat in Bedroom Will Cheat in Boardroom: Study by jeromebaek on Friday August 09, 2019 @03:38PM (#20657635)
You sound like a cheater who hasn't been caught... yet. ;)