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Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by mc32 on Saturday August 03, 2019 @09:07PM (#20603837)
Definitely. Unions brought progress in terms of worker rights, up to a point. They helped transform the landscape for all workers.

But, like all big and complex organizations they become corrupted and rather than having the interest of workers and society as foremost goals, self perpetuation and preservation become the goals.

Except for Bernie no other candidate explicitly and implicitly supports unions. All the others support policies which would undermine unions, except for where it’s politically expedient.

But this is natural. Even in the proletarian era of Mao, unions/workers suffered descent too. Often a most favored group would be pitted against another when necessary, for example the Hong Wei Bings [紅衛兵]

Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by ken on Saturday August 03, 2019 @10:23PM (#20604080)
> Unions brought progress in terms of worker rights, up to a point.

What does "up to a point" mean? Like these videos, this makes it sound as if the progress of workers' rights is over, and we've got all we'll ever need.

What about, say, "a living wage", which the government's minimum wage law is unable to provide? This isn't done. It will probably never be done.

Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by tathougies on Sunday August 04, 2019 @01:17AM (#20604554)
The thing is not all jobs need pay a living wage. Not everyone works to live. Some people work for extra income and their spouse works for a living. Others work to save for splurge purposes while being supported by parents. Others work for socialization after retirement. Forcing companies to pay living wages for every job means they are more reticent to create jobs which could help take families out of poverty or keep seniors from falling into hard times, etc.

Governments need to pursue policies to ensure there are a surplus of jobs paying living wages for the number of workers that need to live off work. This is not the same as pursuing policies to ensure every job pays a minimum wage.

Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by mc32 on Sunday August 04, 2019 @08:41AM (#20606147)
Even Bernie came against this reality: his workers demanded $15/hr, you know in line with his stated policy platform. So, he did concede the raise but cut back on their hours.

Now, I’m somewhere in the middle. I think shipping jobs overseas has had a catastrophic impact on wages and jobs (unions can’t protect against this in any meaningful way). Also unions will milk a company dry regardless of consequences. But they occasionally protect against some abuse. On the other hand they stifle innovation in very counterproductive ways.

Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by icxa on Monday August 05, 2019 @10:36AM (#20614538)
> I think shipping jobs overseas has had a catastrophic impact on wages and jobs

On the flip side this is also what has contributed so much to global progress in terms of increased wages globally, increased standard of living, life expectancy, literacy levels, and every other measurable positive progress indicator. I'm conflicted as well.

Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by 29athrowaway on Saturday August 03, 2019 @09:16PM (#20603866)
> But, like all big and complex organizations they become corrupted and rather than having the interest of workers and society as foremost goals, self perpetuation and preservation become the goals.

The same can be said of corporations too.

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Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by pasquinelli on Saturday August 03, 2019 @11:50PM (#20604309)
Workers produce useful stuff
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Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by hannasanarion on Sunday August 04, 2019 @01:05AM (#20604527)
Unions strengthen workers. A company that negotiated 1000 small contracts has the upper hand in each of them, if it is forced to negotiate 1 big contract, then they are on equal footing.
Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by koshnaranek on Sunday August 04, 2019 @07:43AM (#20605884)
So if only the people, the workers produce stuff, and the form of organization like the union is parasitic then the cooperation does not produce stuff as well.
Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by CamperBob2 on Sunday August 04, 2019 @01:44PM (#20608022)
Organization is necessary for large-scale production. It's not necessary for employment at any scale.
Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by close04 on Sunday August 04, 2019 @07:06AM (#20605723)
The only way to have any negotiating power is to present yourself as a single, unified entity. A union. Single workers or small groups have no power against a corporation. Just like individuals have no power against a government. It's only when they come together that they can effect change.

So fighting against unions is the same as fighting against people's right to associate since any group can have the same shortcomings unions do.

Re:Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video] by BEEdwards on Saturday August 03, 2019 @10:57PM (#20604186)
>Definitely. Unions brought progress in terms of worker rights, up to a point.

That point being when capitalists convinced the government to limit the power of unions and stifle their use of union pension funds to finance things that would be beneficial union.

Taft Hartley Act of 1947