News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism. Parent comment

Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by bogwog on Thursday August 01, 2019 @01:40PM (#20586303)
That digit ratio stuff has always weirded me out. There are even some studies that show certain ratios correspond with homosexuality. That wikipedia page even has a huge table with a list of stuff like having a high digit ratio corresponds to reduced financial trading ability, and a low digit ratio corresponds to a longer penis.

That shit is weird.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by wnevets on Thursday August 01, 2019 @02:09PM (#20586583)
People tend to forget just how important hormones can be and just assume everything is because of genes.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by Zenst on Thursday August 01, 2019 @02:49PM (#20587036)
We are also only equally coming around to the thinking that the makeup of bacteria in the stomach has a bigger impact in area's that we have never invisanged before.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by dekhn on Thursday August 01, 2019 @03:13PM (#20587251)
hormones are proteins encoded by genes that affect gene transcription. Many hormones respond to entirely internal signals. So, much of what hormones do have a root cause in genomes (but, there are definitely limits on that statement).
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by refurb on Thursday August 01, 2019 @04:10PM (#20587829)
That's an odd comment since hormones are the result of gene expression.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by PeterisP on Thursday August 01, 2019 @06:09PM (#20588845)
Not necessarily, for example, the very thing in the article title - high levels of oestrogens in the womb - is about hormone levels not caused by expression of your genes but influenced by outside environment.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by taneq on Thursday August 01, 2019 @06:49PM (#20589097)
An outside environment which shares ~50% of your genes, though.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by blaser-waffle on Friday August 02, 2019 @09:15AM (#20592669)
Nothing genetic about lead in the air or in paint, or hormones in your beef. Nothing genetic about alcohol or cigarette exposure in the womb. Or random thugs terrifying your parents, putting your pregnant mom through waves of fight-or-flight hormone spikes.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by dsalso on Thursday August 01, 2019 @06:45PM (#20589061)
Yeah, but they are more precisely a function of environment. Diet, stress even sunlight affect hormone levels in a given individual.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by tapland on Thursday August 01, 2019 @04:13PM (#20587862)
They are usually, but you don't get much variation without issues that are not genetic that affect hormones. Like hormone producing tumours.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by wnevets on Thursday August 01, 2019 @04:34PM (#20588047)
IMO gene expression is very different than what layman like myself mean when we talk about our genes.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by refurb on Thursday August 01, 2019 @05:00PM (#20588309)
OK, fair point.

In order for genes to have any impact on an organism they need to be expressed. And it's expression that creates the enzymes that create hormones. So it's hard to separate those two.

Environmental exposure can change how genes are expressed and thus hormones.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by Sharlin on Thursday August 01, 2019 @05:56PM (#20588757)
But hormones are one of the things that affect gene expression in turn. There aren’t really many straightforward causal relationships in biology.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by refurb on Thursday August 01, 2019 @06:10PM (#20588850)
That's true, but the hormones wouldn't changes gene expression unless it was already encoded in the genes.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by Zenst on Thursday August 01, 2019 @02:48PM (#20587026)
As with many traits, not always a given, just more likely. Though the last one you mention, as somebody with a low digit ratio is one that escaped me and I'm just fine with that, as happily dispel the relationship myth about shoe size in which I'm size 13UK/14USA.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by b_tterc_p on Thursday August 01, 2019 @05:58PM (#20588778)
It’s not that surprising. It’s just a second order effect of an important environmental factor at a critical development stage.

Hormones valances in the womb, as you mentioned, are likely a driver of homosexuality. And having kids changes the hormone balance, making some arrangements of sons and daughters more likely to be gay.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by lonelappde on Thursday August 01, 2019 @05:28PM (#20588546)
It's essentially a list of stereotypically male/female traits that correlate with testosterone/estrogen.

And of course not a p-value or effect size is sight.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism by b_tterc_p on Thursday August 01, 2019 @06:03PM (#20588804)
> And of course not a p-value or effect size is sight.

Because... it’s wikipedia and you wouldn’t expect to find those things

While I’m sure nobody thinks there is a casual relationship, you can find statistically significant effects on the digit ratio

[ Parent | on HN ]