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Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by temporaryvector on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:01AM (#20533609)
I look at it as something that's not really a necessity, but has the potential to improve my quality of life. Unfortunately, most current implementations of the idea are pretty bad. Having to take out my phone or speaking to a voice assistant to turn my lights off or on isn't all that useful.

Where IoT really comes into it's own is either doing stuff automatically or doing stuff without requiring my presence (remotely). By far my favorite application of this so far has been the ability to turn my air conditioning on or off remotely, that way I can turn it on about an hour or two before coming home to a comfortably cool room. This increases my quality of life without increasing my electricity bill too much. Other things like opening the blinds in the morning a bit before my alarm and either disabling or lowering the volume of my doorbell are pretty good too. Other useful for me applications (that I'm in the process of implementing) would include monitoring water levels, flow, temperature and pressure to control pumps, heaters (I don't use hot water during the day so turning off the heater would make sense until I'm ready to go to bed, for example), detecting leaks and maybe automatically shutting the water/gas supply. Things like automatically watering the garden if needed, smart reminders (remind me to do something only if I forgot about it, keep silent if I already did it), home security (doors, cameras, alarms), etc. are also things that would benefit from IoT integration.

The problem I have right now with most things IoT is that a lot of them are doing their own thing, connecting to their own servers, using their own apps, have different behaviors in the event of power outage and who knows if they'll continue working after the company moves on to newer products, goes bankrupt or gets sold. A lot of modern things you can buy are also pretty trivial in their functionality and don't offer much their regular, manual counterparts. This results in a lot of expensive hardware that's tedious to interact with for little benefit. Someone who actually wants to get a lot out of their smart things (like me), in the current world, can't really go buy off the shelf solutions or even pay someone else to design a solution for them, they have to be technically competent so they can hack existing stuff together, make their own smart things, fix stuff that breaks or stops working, etc. Smart homes are still pretty much the realm of the DIY hobbyist, there's little on the market today that can compete with what a halfway competent hobbyist with some time and money on their hands can cobble together for themselves, particularly with the prevalence of cheap and easy to use hardware platforms (NodeMCU, Arduino, RPi), open source projects in the sphere, cheap and widely available sensors and actuators, good community support, etc.

If IoT wants to move away from the current status as expensive, unreliable gimmicks, companies need to stop focusing on the idea of separate smart things and start thinking in terms of smart homes (like the kind we used to see in old sci-fi talking about the futuristic year 2000). There has always been a push in that direction, but it's never been too successful. What needs to happen is that people need to drop the idea of smart things as hardware and start thinking of them as peripherals. Just like your house now has a breaker panel, a hypothetical smart home should have a house computer, running a "House OS" to which all kinds of sensors, actuators and devices can connect through a universal house bus, pretty much the same way you connect a mouse or a camera to your computer today. This would let device makers focus on their devices and the "House OS" maker focus on other issues like remote access, scriptability, security, etc. When I buy a mouse I'm not worried about it working with my computer, I'm not worried that it'll stop working if Logitech goes out of business, I don't need to worry about it catching malware and DDoSing some website or phoning home with all my mousing data. Why should it be any different if I buy a smart light bulb or a smart air conditioner?

There are numerous projects working in that direction like this one from Mozilla, HomeKit and whatever else, and DIY solutions almost always have a centralized home server for all that stuff too, so I think we will eventually get there, but for now the modern smart home feels very similar to the way the earliest micro computers were in the late 70s and early 80s.

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by r3bl on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:17AM (#20533898)
I use NFC tags as a trigger. I simply hover my phone over a tag and an action happens in the background. It feels much better than dealing with separate apps and always-on microphones.

> If IoT wants to move away from the current status as expensive, unreliable gimmicks, companies need to stop focusing on the idea of separate smart things and start thinking in terms of smart homes

Why would they do that? They do want to offer you a smart home, but a home that's entirely under their control, using either their own gadgets or compatible ones (so that they could charge other companies for the compatibility stickers).

There are plenty of protocols, and plenty of apps that support a protocol or two, but not every. Home Assistant and this project from Mozilla attempt to bridge that gap. I don't understand what Mozilla sees in an attempt to fight an established open source project like Home Assistant, but they probably have a reason or two. Such reasons are not yet obvious to me, so I'm going to continue using Home Assistant for my purposes. Every device I've purchased works locally, so I have one device that hosts the server, one interface that controls it (Progressive Web App, to be more precise), and NFC tags plastered over my apartment that trigger stuff without the need to even look at that one interface.

That's the sweet spot for me and it really feels like the future is already here. My choice of gadgets is rather limited (since I refuse to purchase any IoT device that can't be made to work locally), but so far I've yet to face a problem that I'm unable to find a solution for.

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by wongarsu on Friday July 26, 2019 @11:00AM (#20535281)
> I use NFC tags as a trigger. I simply hover my phone over a tag and an action happens in the background.

That reads like what you really want is a regular physical button or switch.

I think a lot of devices suffer because they try to fit the IoT label instead of just being a smart device without internet or even phone connectivity.

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by r3bl on Friday July 26, 2019 @12:23PM (#20535952)
You'd think so, but NFCs are far easier to program and re-program.

One of the NFC tags on my work desk triggers "focus mode". Lights change to bright white, a (non-local) radio station starts playing in the background, and the volume gets auto-adjusted to something bearable. That saves me like 20 clicks or so on two remotes.

It's all about those small victories that save me a few minutes each day, all without a need to route cables throughout the apartment. When I want to re-purpose an NFC tag, it takes me maybe 30 seconds to do so (instead of having to re-route the cables throughout my home). Physical buttons can do one task and one task only. NFC tags can trigger as many tasks on as many devices as I want them to.

If my Internet goes down, things still work. If I don't want to use my phone, I don't have to (I can achieve the same things from my laptop). I don't have to worry about turning shit off when I leave my home, Home Assistant does that for me (if an nmap scan doesn't detect any trusted device on my network). If a company whose gadget I'm using goes bankrupt, things are still perfectly usable.

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by wongarsu on Friday July 26, 2019 @12:53PM (#20536196)
There's nothing inherent about a button that prevents it from being programmable, and Phillips even has a battery-less remote that could as well be wall mounted.
Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by r3bl on Friday July 26, 2019 @02:57PM (#20537400)
You mean like this one? https://www2.meethue.com/en-us/support/dimmer-switch

I know about it. I have it. I've used it as a trigger before. I've replaced it with NFCs because they are less of a hassle to repurpose. The dimmer still serves its original purpose, while NFC tags are used for everything else.

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by aksss on Friday July 26, 2019 @03:33PM (#20537691)
I mean, that's what insteon buttons with an isy994 are all about right? The button push just tells the controller "I was pushed" and whatever you tell the controller to do with that information is what gets done. The cool thing is you can have a bank of six buttons in a standard 1-gang box format. Seems easier and less complex than NFC and a phone, unless you're using the phone as a form of authentication (something possessed), whereas a physical button is like anonymous/no authentication.
Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by jon-wood on Friday July 26, 2019 @11:43AM (#20535614)
The Alexa platform is going a long way towards giving people an expectation of interoperability. So long as you've got some fairly basic code on your backend Alexa is able to respond to devices updating it on their current state, and you can set up automations to respond to that and change the state of other devices.
Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by icebraining on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:16AM (#20533680)
Why not use a simple timer for the AC? Do you come home at different times each day?
Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by temporaryvector on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:32AM (#20533744)
Yes I do, even when I know when I'll get home, plans can change.

A timer also can't tell me if my AC is actually on, may fail in the case of a power outage or I may forget to set it, as such using a timer doesn't provide a meaningful improvement over just turning on the AC when I get home and tolerating the heat for half and hour or so.

In the end, a timer has no feedback, so a closed loop system will always be better. I've been burned numerous times by open-loop systems in home automation, so I don't do that anymore. That's the second reason why I spend a lot more effort and money on sensors rather than actuators (the first reason being that graphs are fun).

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by dredmorbius on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:35AM (#20534263)
You do realise that power draw likely averages less than 350 watts. Your A/C running for an additional hour or two a few days a month would cost you a dollar or two, max.

Given that the load is likely removing peak daytime heat, then sustaining a less-challenging night-time temperature, the net impact is probably even less.

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by amphibian87 on Friday July 26, 2019 @09:36AM (#20534658)
The average central A/C will use 4000 to 5000 watts. I own the cheapest smallest window unit at the store and I just checked it's about 600W (4.8 amps @ 120V).

It's not horrible, but that's like half a space heater and most people spring for something bigger.

Re:Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-s... by dredmorbius on Friday July 26, 2019 @09:40AM (#20534689)
Peak draw. Duty cycle is about 1/3 that typically.

First hour use may approach peak, but again, most of that is incurred regardless.

5 kWh is $0.50 - $1.00, which is the cost of running an hour long for a day, the worst-case scenario. You'd spend a lot more on IoT kit (the Turris Omnia alone is $300) for minimising that cost.

Timers are cheap.