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Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by pmoriarty on Saturday July 20, 2019 @10:42AM (#20486011)
"Its very expensive to fill a rental. A landlord usually needs at least a month to find another tenant. That's a month of foregone rent"

If a month of foregone rent was such a huge burden to landlords then it wouldn't be so common for them to keep their properties vacant.

Just recently, Los Angeles lawmakers have proposed a vacancy tax on the 111,000 vacant homes in the area.[1]

[1] - https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-vacant-housing-...

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by BeetleB on Saturday July 20, 2019 @12:11PM (#20486568)
>If a month of foregone rent was such a huge burden to landlords then it wouldn't be so common for them to keep their properties vacant.

Landlords estimate a vacancy rate and keep that amount in reserves. However, they all earn more money if it's not vacant. It's almost never the case that they can make more money by keeping the rent high and units vacant.

Also, is they are using a property management company (which surprisingly many do), then turnovers are likely more expensive for the landlord than the tenant's cost to move - they usually charge 50% of one month's rent to find a new tenant for you.

If they're too optimistic in that vacancy rate, they will lose money.

For anyone thinking landlords have all the power, hang out on real estate forums. After all expenses (including vacancy), most RE investors target $100-200/month per unit. Now often, over several years, if rents shoot up in the city, they'll make good money from the increased rent. But they don't rely on that - their usual hope is the property's value will go up so they can sell it one day. The landlords who make huge piles of money are outliers. The vast majority of landlords do not make anything close to a SV SW developer and are not aiming to (of course, though, whatever they do make is almost "free", which makes the difference to them).

The top skill for a landlord is to estimate costs. At $100-200/unit, if they underestimate a lot, they are out of business. Surprisingly, most do not carry vandalism insurance. So if a disgruntled tenant trashes a place, they could easily lose the property. If they do not reserve money for evictions, they could easily lose the property.

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by Retric on Saturday July 20, 2019 @12:30PM (#20486705)
This greatly depends on the number of units. If you’re managing 1,000 units renting them all is a sign you have left money on the table. The safest approach to maximize profit is to increase prices as your vacancy rates drop. The ideal situation is to effectively always have 1 vacancy of each size not 0.
Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by BeetleB on Saturday July 20, 2019 @12:31PM (#20486710)
>If you’re managing 1,000 units renting them all is a sign you have left money on the table.

That is the very definition of an outlier. Most landlords (easily over 90%) don't even have a 100 units. In fact, most landlords have a target number of units they need to "retire", and that number is usually less than 100.

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by Retric on Saturday July 20, 2019 @12:40PM (#20486789)
From the market’s perspective it’s the ratio of units managed by each type that matters.

Hypothetically, if 1 company managed 1,000 units and 1,000 people managed 1 unit then that outlier owns 50% of the market while representing 0.1% of the land lords.

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by BeetleB on Saturday July 20, 2019 @02:34PM (#20487492)
It would be interesting to see this breakdown in numbers. I would suspect there's some kind of power law at work, although probably not as extreme as the example you gave.

Also, keep in mind that on the flip side, landlords likely view tenants the same way - looking at aggregates and not individuals: "Yes, lots of people can't afford the rent, but as long as I can get enough to make a profit, who cares about the rest?"

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by vl on Saturday July 20, 2019 @05:13PM (#20488412)
Managing 1000 units is way beyond full-time job, for this you need staff, which is additional expense.
Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by pmoriarty on Saturday July 20, 2019 @12:20PM (#20486619)
"It's almost never the case that they can make more money by keeping the rent high and units vacant."

Unless they can hold out until property values rise and they can sell for a profit.

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by BeetleB on Saturday July 20, 2019 @12:38PM (#20486770)
>Unless they can hold out until property values rise and they can sell for a profit.

Sure, if they've got piles of cash sitting around to pay for the loan, insurance and real estate taxes.

Here's another tidbit people don't understand. If the property has more than 4 units, the value of the property is determined almost entirely by the revenue it generates.[1][2] The bank who will provide the loan to the buyer will look at those numbers, and the buyer will look at those numbers. In particular, what people will not look at are the comps (the value of nearby properties). So a "Let's lose money until the property values go up" strategy won't work there.

[1] https://theresabradleybanta.com/value-a-multi-unit-property/ [2] https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/2016-07-06-multifamily-re...

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by clairity on Saturday July 20, 2019 @05:26PM (#20488477)
> "Here's another tidbit people don't understand. If the property has more than 4 units, the value of the property is determined almost entirely by the revenue it generates."

actually, that's pretty straightforwardly "income-based valuation", and it's logical because having more than 4 units means the property is primarily a business and not primarily a residence. businesses are valued by the income (i.e., profits) they generate. the sales comparison method (employing "comps") is primarily used with residences because the more accurate income-based valuation isn't available to residences, as non-income-generating assets. (the third valuation method is cost approach, which is used as a primary method of valuation in markets with low turnover/few comps, and in many tax assessment jurisdictions).

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by graeme on Saturday July 20, 2019 @10:58AM (#20486120)
That doesn’t establish how common vacancy rates are. You need to look at the rate, not the number. And politicians passing a law means nothing about the fundamentals: you’d need to know if the law is well targeted, or instead perverse.

Do you have any data on how long properties are vacant? And if they’re vacant, are they vacant for a reason like renovations or construction?

Every landlord I’ve ever had has wanted to rent their place quickly. They hate missing a month.

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by LargeWu on Saturday July 20, 2019 @11:13AM (#20486206)
We had to rent our former home for 4 years after we moved, but couldn't sell because the market value was too low after the real estate crash. It's really hard to find tenants that aren't total deadbeats. Raise your rent and it's almost impossible to fill the vacancy. Lower the rent and get nothing but unqualified applicants with terrible credit and criminal records. So sure, maybe I could lower the rent to get someone in there, but that means there's a high chance they'll either a) not pay their rent, b) damage the property, or c) both.
Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by sdenton4 on Saturday July 20, 2019 @11:46AM (#20486420)
Great! If you can't fill the spot to your liking, you should get out of the game. Sell to someone who needs a place to live, or is comfortable lowering rents and dealing with the work load.
Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by toomuchtodo on Saturday July 20, 2019 @02:46PM (#20487575)
The other option is to simply default and walk away from the property if you can't find a tenant, and you can't afford to eat the loss of selling it.
Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by coredog64 on Saturday July 20, 2019 @04:58PM (#20488328)
Not every US state is a non-recourse state.
Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by toomuchtodo on Saturday July 20, 2019 @07:40PM (#20488983)
Speaking from experience, you can still default in a recourse state with little consequence.
Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by LargeWu on Monday July 22, 2019 @02:31PM (#20500825)
"Sell to someone who needs a place to live"

This would have required me to take a huge loss on the property, which I would have had to pay out of pocket, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, which I did not have. I would have preferred to never rent at all.

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by bko on Saturday July 20, 2019 @11:31AM (#20486335)
I think vacancy rates in some metropolitan areas increased primarily due to rent control, rent stabilization, tenant rights or the risk of future legislation.

If you can't raise rents, you'd be less likely to react to lower market rents. So prices stay sticky on the way down. Even if the laws are not in place now, there is a risk of them being in place in the near future and you'll be stuck at below market rents.

Also if you can't remove tenants then you'd be more selective and naturally that would increase vacancy rates.

A high vacancy rate doesn't prove that its not expensive to fill a rental. In fact higher vacancy rates means losing a tenant is even greater than if there were low vacancy rates. That means that an empty apartment is going to stay on the market even longer. And most landlords have some debt arrangement, are paying interest, taxes and insurance in addition to forgoing rental income.

Re:Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws by RHSeeger on Saturday July 20, 2019 @03:19PM (#20487720)
There's a difference between landlords in places with extreme property value inflation... and the rest of the world.