News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by rootusrootus on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:03PM (#20475153)
> They must be so bored…

Your preconceived notions of what suburban living is like are just as inaccurate as the perceptions of city life of the person you responded to.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by stouset on Thursday July 18, 2019 @10:54PM (#20475832)
I grew up in a suburb and was bored shitless. I had one friend that lived within walking distance, and everyone else was too far away to get to without a car, which meant that I didn't get to see my friends unless it was convenient for one of my two parents (who both held full-time jobs). Cycling anywhere outside of the local neighborhood was out of the question, since the roads connecting neighborhoods were full of fast-moving traffic and no bicycle lanes or pedestrian walkways.

There were "woods" between the endless maze of houses, but all of them were just parts of other people's property. And who was I going to play with in them, except for my one nearby friend?

I ended up just playing a lot of video games.

For all that urban centers are supposedly "hostile places" (according to the GP), I look at the adults and children I know in cities and I see mostly fit, healthy, active people with multiple hobbies and interests. I look at the adults and children I know in suburbs and I see overweight, sedentary people who spend so much of their life commuting between work, school, and home, that they barely have time for more than one day of a week of something fun like an organized sport. The rest is just spent at home watching TV or playing video games.

If I do decide have children, I definitely know what kind of place I want to do it in.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by burfog on Friday July 19, 2019 @01:03AM (#20476307)
I lived in that kind of place. I also had my one nearby friend.

We would ride our bicycles more than 5 miles along US-44. It has 2 lanes each side for a total of 4 lanes, 2-foot shoulders, and traffic that often got to a decent highway speed. There could be snow on the shoulder. One of the older bridges was narrow, with only about a half-foot shoulder. We went anyway.

We had similar woods. We went out there and built a fort. We camped. We misbehaved. We went to the railroad tracks and put coins on the rails. We hiked a mile to a lake, carrying an inflated raft and fishing or camping gear.

Don't blame the suburb if you chose to play video games. I hear that cities also have video games.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by lultimouomo on Friday July 19, 2019 @02:16AM (#20476536)
> We would ride our bicycles more than 5 miles along US-44. It has 2 lanes each side for a total of 4 lanes, 2-foot shoulders, and traffic that often got to a decent highway speed. There could be snow on the shoulder. One of the older bridges was narrow, with only about a half-foot shoulder. We went anyway.

And I bet it was uphill! Both ways!

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by stouset on Friday July 19, 2019 @01:20AM (#20476361)
Nowadays I am a cyclist and I feel comfortable riding alongside traffic for any distance. Even if it had occurred to me that riding five miles to a friend was possible (cycling is currently enjoying a surge of popularity, but at the time it was somewhat unfathomable even to adults that you might ride a bike for such distances), I'm not sure that would have been a practical or reasonable thing for an eight year old to do. By the time I was fourteen or fifteen I felt comfortable riding my bike farther distances, but at that point I was nearly able to drive a car alone anyway.

The "woods" I mentioned were small enough that there was no point away from easy eyesight from some neighbor's living room windows. Sure, we played in them. But there was no actual sense of isolation. There were no train tracks anywhere nearby. There were some tiny lakes, but they were clearly on other people's property.

It's great that you seemed to live in somewhere more rural than me and that was an area you were able to thrive in. Still, if you look at populations of people as a whole I suspect you'll find orders of magnitude more bored and unhealthy kids (who start getting into real trouble) in suburbs than you find in cities where there are actually plenty of opportunities and things to do.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by ryandrake on Friday July 19, 2019 @01:02PM (#20480442)
Same here. I don't get this trope where we're pretending that a car with a parental chauffeur is the only method of transportation. I roamed all over the place as a kid with my first bicycle. Shorter distances when I was very young (6-7) but up to dozens of miles as I got older. I was raised by a single parent who was often working, so there was no car available, but using this great miracle machine, I could still visit friends, explore nature, build forts, etc. Suburbia just means you need to ride your bike a little further to get to your friends' houses.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by eitally on Friday July 19, 2019 @12:47AM (#20476249)
There is an alternative. Don't live in a big city! There are plenty of 2nd & 3rd tier cities where you can get both a house and land for a reasonable price and still have good schools and a vibrant cultural environment. Of course you won't have some things (international airport, professional sports teams, top rate museums), but you'll make up for it in "free" QoL for your family.

I grew up in a city of 75,000, in a house currently worth about $150k (purchased new in 1976 by my parents for $38k and sold in 1993 for $120k), on 2.5 acres. It was about 30% lawn, gardens & sports area and 70% wooded (with a creek, even!). I only had 1-2 good neighborhood friends but I did have a younger brother & sister and we were constantly outside doing something.

I think you need to think about how you define "city" and "suburb" a little more.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by Karrot_Kream on Friday July 19, 2019 @02:42AM (#20476622)
For a lot of people, the city is automatically Manhattan or downtown Chicago. They can't fathom anything but that or a suburb, and to be fair America is very bad at making anything else.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by dsfyu404ed on Friday July 19, 2019 @08:38AM (#20478095)
This is such a west coast bubble mindset. Basically everywhere west of the Missouri river is littered with 2nd and 3rd tier cities. Many of them are even within a reasonable commuting distance of the nearest major economic hub (though the southeast definitely has a lot of sprawl going on).
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by Karrot_Kream on Tuesday July 23, 2019 @02:49AM (#20504927)
Not just West Coast, but Western US. West of the Midwest, and everything becomes vastly more rural.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by lonelappde on Friday July 19, 2019 @12:24PM (#20479975)
A Midwestern 3rd tier city is the same as a coastal megalopolis suburb.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by souprock on Saturday July 20, 2019 @01:26AM (#20484344)
Eh, I kind of have all that, depending on where you draw the line for distance and seriousness. I'm in Brevard County, FL. So not counting Orlando? OK...

There is an international airport. It has seasonal flights to Ottawa, Toronto–Billy Bishop, and Windsor. Those are in Canada.

There is a professional sports team, the USSSA Pride women′s professional fast-pitch softball team. Another is the Brevard County Cocoa Expos, a member of the Women's Premier Soccer League.

There are top-rate museums. One has a Saturn V, a Space Shuttle, a Saturn 1B, the Apollo 14 Command Module, space suits, moon rocks, and related stuff. Another has the Gemini 2 spacecraft and a bunch of missiles. Another has spacesuits and Sigma 7, the fifth manned Mercury spacecraft.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by awinder on Friday July 19, 2019 @06:54AM (#20477527)
Woosh. So to the parents point, let me just explain that if you have kids and bring them up in the city, there’s a good chance they’re back on 2050s version of hackernews posting the suburban-centric viewpoint of how bleak city life is.

I get that everyone is living the best existence out there, but c’mon people, isn’t it clear that there is no objectively better place, only places with trade offs that appeal to different folks?

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by nickserv on Friday July 19, 2019 @07:43AM (#20477787)
My early teenage years were in the city, my later teens in the suburbs.

I hated that move to the burbs... Nothing to do except getting kicked out of the local mall or Borders. No libraries, no parks, no pools nearby... And no public transport.

When before in the city I could just take public transport and go downtown, meet my friends, go to the library, etc..

Now that I have kids, I live in a city. But it's a quiet neighborhood, and we have a yard -- that I did appreciate from the suburbs ;-)

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by lonelappde on Friday July 19, 2019 @12:25PM (#20479994)
You have a yard with public transit? That's clearly not scalable; it must be very expensive property.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by nickserv on Friday July 19, 2019 @04:39PM (#20482263)
It's a mixed area, there are single family homes, small apartment buildings and a few medium sized buildings (4-5 stories).

We don't have any metro lines but have bus and train.

Prices are reasonable because we are on the north face of a large hill and get little sun in the winter, and are not close to the downtown area.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by joebadmo on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:28PM (#20475267)
I grew up in suburbs, and couldn't go anywhere without a car, so I was very bored and watched a lot of television (though I read a lot of books, too).

Currently raising two kids in an urban center, and I'm excited for them to have way more opportunities than I had.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by rayiner on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:46PM (#20475350)
We raised our daughter from 0-5 in big cities, and there is definitely a huge appeal to that. But on the flip side, kids don’t need to “go anywhere.” They just need other kids around. When I grew up, we just roamed the neighborhood causing trouble. That element is missing in most cities today. You can’t just count on having a mess of kids on your block. Parents are the minority, so they have to more consciously get together and schedule activities with other parents.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by bobthepanda on Thursday July 18, 2019 @09:40PM (#20475556)
At least in NYC, growing up, there were always playgrounds and parks full of kids. And I could go there by myself and meet my friends there. If we got bored of the nearby park we could always go use public transportation and go to a different one. And when I got older I could go to restaurants by myself, or go to museums and shows by myself, etc.

There isn't that much within safe walking distance of a suburban home. Especially now that anchor tenants and the attached malls are starting to thin out. Anecdotally when I went to college, the kids from the suburbs definitely drank and did drugs much more heavily, and I suspect it was because that's all there's left to do if you get bored of video games and whatever little is actually at your fingertips.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by rootusrootus on Friday July 19, 2019 @12:13PM (#20479850)
I am glad you are giving your kids more opportunities than you had. I did not have the same experience growing up in a suburban environment, and my kids aren't the least bit lacking for activities, so to each their own. My suburban neighborhood also has transit service, so there's that.
Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Friday July 19, 2019 @06:52AM (#20477518)
Then why do people from suburbs flock to the cities for their entertainment? Or build their suburbs right on the edge of cities?

Suburbs are boring. I grew up in them and much of my family still lives in them. I understand why people live in them — cost and space for raising kids, but they are definitely boring. And most of the people I know that live in them wouldn’t disagree, it’s a necessity driven by cost.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by rootusrootus on Friday July 19, 2019 @12:10PM (#20479821)
Nobody I know flocks to the city for anything. Sometimes we drive in to the urban center, most of the time we do not. There are lots and lots of things to do without going downtown. Lacking for entertainment, or being bored, neither is something I've ever had a problem with.

I think a lot of people here think suburbia is some vast wasteland of houses as far as the eye can see. Sure, that exists in some places, but a lot of us live in vary diverse suburbs with mixed residential, retail, commercial, etc.

I also have to say I have not met anyone who lives in my area because it's cheaper :). If anything I could save a few bucks by moving closer to the urban core. Again, I'm sure the cost thing is true somewhere but America is a pretty big place.

Re:America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births by NoMoreNicksLeft on Friday July 19, 2019 @01:11PM (#20480512)
> Then why do people from suburbs flock to the cities for their entertainment?

In ages past, this had more to do with shopping than entertainment. I suspect that it will become obvious that Amazon has negated this need, partially or wholly. The only they don't sell (mostly) is groceries, which for the large part were and are available locally.