News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by aviraldg on Thursday July 18, 2019 @05:56AM (#20468264)
I feel like all these articles follow a pattern: they take a common, well known aspect of technology (in this case, analytics trackers), search for any cases where a major tech company is involved, and come up with the most clickbaity headline possible ("Google and Facebook Are Quietly Tracking You on Sex Websites", when it's actually the website owners adding this tracking code in the first place, explicitly for the purpose of understanding user behaviour.) These headlines are then shared and reshared by nontechnical users, prompting outrage when there isn't a good reason for it.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by letstrynvm on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:29AM (#20468418)
> prompting outrage when there isn't a good reason for it.

Can you expand on why there's 'no good reason for it'?

The equivalent is my peering in your window to see and note down what you rub one out to... every time. And you don't know what I do with that information or where it will leak to.

That sounds perfectly fine to you, does it?

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by aeroxis on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:48AM (#20468492)
It is actually not like you peering through his window to see and note down what you rib one out.

It's more like when I have a massive orgy with lots of drugs at my place and I invited a bouncer, who is really good at statistics, to keep track of who is coming in and who are leaving immediately. The bouncer is also keeping track of what each person is doing, and letting me know periodically. And you both are invited for a night of drug fueled insane sex.

From my perspective, I am doing this to make sure everyone is having fun at my party. From the bouncer's perspective, he is there just to collect stats and let me know. He is not there to invade my privacy. I want to do that. I hired the bouncer.

I think that is more is an accurate description.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:54AM (#20468517)
The story is only outrage-inducing because you hired a well-known bouncer whose dayjob - of which everyone is aware - is being a security guard at a mall, observing everyone as they do their groceries and banking.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by babyloneleven on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:56AM (#20468519)
You are the site owner. The bouncer works for you.

Your users didn't hire the bouncer and don't want to be tracked. Secretly, the bouncer may use this data for nefarious purposes. You can't control how the bouncer will use the data.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by mojuba on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:10AM (#20468915)
Exactly, especially if the bouncer comes to work for you for free. Which is what Google and Facebook analytics platforms do: they are free because they benefit from the collected information in ways beyond your control.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by ysavir on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:40AM (#20469124)
What you forgot to mention was that the bouncer does this for free and has a day job publishing tabloids.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by dhimes on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:53AM (#20469215)
And none of the other orgy participants understand this. And OP may not fully understand it either.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by everdrive on Thursday July 18, 2019 @09:57AM (#20469798)
There's nothing I enjoy more than a bunch of nerds analyzing a metaphor to death.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by nemosaltat on Thursday July 18, 2019 @09:43AM (#20469661)
My dads mantra used to be, “if it seems too good to be true, it probably is”. Now, I find I must consistently remind him- if it’s “free” (as in beer, not speech) you’re almost definitely paying for it.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 18, 2019 @02:50PM (#20472855)
Related, when consuming news, if the story seems to involve ridiculous levels of stupidity or malice, the truth is most likely much more mundane and much more reasonable.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by letstrynvm on Thursday July 18, 2019 @07:09AM (#20468565)
That's the site's perspective.

The outrage is from the user's perspective. It's no different from being peeped on.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by mirimir on Thursday July 18, 2019 @07:32AM (#20468687)
Sure. But unless you go balls to the wall about it, you're always being "peeped on" when you're online.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by jhiesey on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:05AM (#20468893)
I think that's the broader problem that the article is trying to get at. Pornography is just an example that makes it clearer to people that they should care about it.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by aviraldg on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:42AM (#20468469)
No, the equivalent is you walking into a store to buy DVDs, and the store manager keeping a record of what sells well, and what you show interest in, etc. to drive decisions about what to stock next.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by pjc50 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:57AM (#20468523)
Interestingly this example led to one of America's few, narrowly-focused privacy laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act

> It makes any "video tape service provider" that discloses rental [or sale] information outside the ordinary course of business liable for up to $2500 in actual damages.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by vageli on Thursday July 18, 2019 @10:02AM (#20469844)
It's crazy, we understand that libraries should be barred from handing over our book checkout histories but somehow we allow corporations to do that and much more.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by martingoodson on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:47AM (#20468488)
... and then cross-referencing your purchase with everything else you ever purchased. And also every article you ever read. And then selling that information to others.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by dsr_ on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:54AM (#20468515)
... and claiming it's not a privacy violation because they don't let the others search for martingoodson, they just offer selection criteria including your age, gender, geographical location, inferred income, inferred religion, inferred skin color, and of course interests.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by RandomInteger4 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @11:54AM (#20471100)
Can you show me an example of where and how Google or Facebook "sells your information?" i.e. allows others to view that information?
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by Carstairs on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:54AM (#20468516)
That analogy only works if its only the store manager keeping the records. Whats really happening is the store manager is outsouring his record keeping to a 3rd party who has full access to the data from his store and data from millions of other stores too.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by andromeduck on Thursday July 18, 2019 @01:55PM (#20472314)
You mean like any big chain or conglomerate or Visa/MasterCard? Consulting/analytics isn't anything new for retail either.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by letstrynvm on Thursday July 18, 2019 @07:07AM (#20468560)
- the user didn't leave his home - he has an 'expectation of privacy' because the tracking is covert - he can't go to a different 'store'... the same covert tracking is in all of them pooling the information
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by Yizahi on Thursday July 18, 2019 @08:44AM (#20469154)
No, the equivalent is you walking into a store to buy DVDs, and the store manager of a nearby store keeping a record of what sells well, and what you show interest in, etc. to drive decisions about what to stock next.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by waveymaus on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:21AM (#20468382)
I appreciate trackers are "well-known", but only to a specific class of technical individuals. "Nontechnical users" is basically everyone. They have a right to be outraged, especially when a technology is understood asymmetrically well by the class of individuals who exploit this asymmetry to their advantage.

Both the individuals visiting these sites, and possibly even the people making the decision to implement tracking don't know their browsing data is being used for anything other than analytics by the website provider, (if at all by the user, who likely feels safe behind a private browser).

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by Nextgrid on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:19AM (#20468374)
To be fair, it’s not like Google/Facebook are a neutral party and only collect data to give it to the site owner. They are also complicit because they keep this data for their own purposes.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by disgruntledphd2 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:22AM (#20468384)
From the article, I'm a little more worried about Oracle, who refused to comment on the story.

That being said, this isn't really news (to us, at least), but it's good that newspapers keep banging this drum, as I doubt most other people have thought about all the tracking that happens everytime they visit a new site.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by tlibert on Thursday July 18, 2019 @11:54AM (#20471098)
Second-author here, I have a few rebuttals to these points.

First, there is also a wider pattern in the US when it comes to privacy/computer legislation. We tend to have sectoral-focused laws which are often a response to media events, real and fictional. For example, Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was a response to the movie War Games. Video Privacy Protection Act was in response to a supreme court nominee's video rental history being leaked to the press. Children's Online Privacy Protection Act was partially spurned by concerted reporting (sometimes sensational) on risks to children online. So the pattern you are seeing is part of a larger system which often does produce real change, it is just a slow process. The press is called the "fourth estate" because they play an important part in the democratic process, which is what you are observing here.

Second, it is the very ubiquity of the systems these companies deploy which makes it possible to choose a given context (health, sex, etc) and find a privacy-violating technology. I'd love it if when I did these scans I turned up nothing, but the same set of bad actors are always to be found. Likewise, the definition of "well-known" on hacker news is far, far, far different from what a normal Internet user has any clue of. We have 20+ years of research showing people fundamentally don't understand this stuff, and just because you don't have a CS degree doesn't mean you don't have privacy rights.

Last, there is very good reason for outrage for many people. There are many places in the world you can be killed for being LGBTQ. Likewise, there are many state intelligence agencies that piggy-back on online tracking (see NSA/Doubleclick cookie), and some governments actively go after LGBTQ people. Even without state intel there is a long history of sexual data being leaked online. People killed themselves as a direct result of the Ashely Madison leak, and if any of these tracking companies porn sites - many of which do not have the security team of a FAANG - get hacked, people who are already marginalized by their societies may be at extreme risk.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by hkai on Saturday July 20, 2019 @11:48AM (#20486434)
Even if the Google Analytics is breached and the data is published online, you can't be tracked back to the things that you watched online.
Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by mirimir on Thursday July 18, 2019 @07:31AM (#20468679)
> explicitly for the purpose of understanding user behaviour.

Just to be clear, for porn sites that means who likes what sorts of porn.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by mikeash on Thursday July 18, 2019 @10:14AM (#20469959)
It’s actually the website owners and Googbook tracking you. The headline may be incomplete but it’s not inaccurate. And “porn site operators track how you use their sites” is pretty mundane.

Pretty much everyone knows that sites can track your usage. It’s surprising that Googbook is also being given all the data on the porn you watch.

Re:Pornography sites found to be riddled with trackers from ... by bregma on Thursday July 18, 2019 @09:11AM (#20469376)
> Google and Facebook Are Quietly Tracking You on Sex Websites

I kinda prefer it when they make a lot of noise.