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Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by Ididntdothis on Monday July 15, 2019 @08:52AM (#20440294)
When you read about WW2 you see the same thing in the German side and also sometimes on the Allied side. Generals and politicians knew that the battle was lost but instead of giving up they made the front soldiers fight to a certain death. That while the leaders who made decisions lived in splendor.

Same with the current American wars. When they invaded Iraq in 2003 the military was understaffed and it took years for the leaders to admit that and adjust. So solders were dying while at the same time a lot of defense companies made good profits and there were tax cuts for higher incomes.

I always wonder how wars would go if as soon as a country was at war, leadership had to live in conditions like a front soldier and nobody would be allowed to make a profit from war related business. I bet we would have much less wars.

Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by jmngomes on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:14AM (#20440449)
Agreed. That has actually been publicly suggested, and supported, by a retired general:

" Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our steel companies and our munitions makers and our ship-builders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted — to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get."

in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

Edit: corrected "general's number of stars"

Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by saiya-jin on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:41AM (#20440697)
Or conscript children of top politicians. And not some cozy job far from any possible danger, but right at the center of it. I guess US wouldn't invade another country half around the globe even if whole population would have to switch to Flintstones-like cars.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by vondur on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:53AM (#20441349)
I think this happened far more during WW1 and WW2. Not so much in the Vietnam War.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by Ididntdothis on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:48AM (#20440757)
that definitely would help.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by SpicyLemonZest on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:27AM (#20441122)
I’m sure all leaders in all organizations can agree it’d be convenient if their suppliers were paid less money.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by mandevil on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:15AM (#20441004)
Smedley Butler was a two star Major General, not a four star General.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by DougN7 on Monday July 15, 2019 @08:54AM (#20440310)
If everyone had to suffer everything that they inflicted on others, we’d soon live in a near utopia. One can dream...
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by NotSammyHagar on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:08AM (#20440400)
Knowing human nature, if we all had to share those warlike conditions, maybe we'd just endure sucking for everyone to keep the war effort going.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by Eric_WVGG on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:29AM (#20441145)
There’s a really great science fiction novel where that’s sort of the climax, but I guess I can’t cite it without dropping a mammoth spoiler…
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by fallingfrog on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:28AM (#20440579)
You know at first that sounds glib but the more I think about it the more profound that statement appears..
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by fallingfrog on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:32AM (#20441172)
If I could elaborate more I was just thinking of various statements of political philosophy that people have made to me in the past.

“The Golden rule is the one thing that all religions have in common.”

“Liberals just want to spread the misery around.”

“What we need is facts and logic, not emotion.”

“Liberty, equality, fraternity.”

“An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

I can’t tie this all up in a bow but there are some interesting themes and counter themes there. If I was a philosophy major I might be able to make more sense.

Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by crankylinuxuser on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:32AM (#20440616)
One could accomplish that with forced empathy and memory injection.

We already have fMRI tech that can do some of that.

Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by kingkawn on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:09AM (#20440954)
The ease with which you’ve transformed empathy into a form of oppression...
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by crankylinuxuser on Monday July 15, 2019 @12:56PM (#20442724)
I'm certainly not the only one to think of this.

I know of Twilight Zone episodes to have used that. Specifically one I can think of is the Dachau Nazi "doctor" comes back to relive his glory days, and is forced by the ghosts who still live there to forcefully feel their pain for the rest of his life. It's supernatural, but still the same idea.

There were also episodes of Outer Limits that did similar, but with a machine that forced them to live with the crime they committed.

I believe Black Mirror also did some of this as well.

Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by Ididntdothis on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:49AM (#20440767)
We don’t need fMRI. There is plenty of opportunity to experience the conditions first hand.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by dredmorbius on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:07AM (#20440394)
Or we'd select for masochists.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by kevingadd on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:04AM (#20440921)
One thing shown by modern politics is that you're absolutely correct: Plenty of people in modern society are happy to act (and in particular, vote) in a way that will hurt them as long as they think someone who deserves it will be hurt more. Not to mention that some people simply won't be hurt by things that other people can't handle.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by SuoDuanDao on Monday July 15, 2019 @09:38AM (#20440664)
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, it seems like a perfectly plausible outcome to me.
Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by dredmorbius on Monday July 15, 2019 @05:02PM (#20445246)
Inspired by a "what could possibly go wrong" moment.

Selection incentives are a real beast.

Re:The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway by lixtra on Monday July 15, 2019 @10:08AM (#20440951)
Or sadists. If you consider that Hitler went through gas warfare I have no optimism that we would be better off with politicians that know war.