Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil fuels off the grid

Re:Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil ... by pilsetnieks on Friday July 12, 2019 @05:25PM (#20424662)

It's not that complicated. There are countries in Europe that, in addition to metered price per kWh used also have a fixed price for grid usage. If you feel you're completely self-sufficient and can survive without the grid, you can cut it off and pay nothing. If you use your own power but want to keep the grid connection for backup, you pay for grid access but nothing for power (or get a discount or a refund, or money back if you feed your excess power into the grid.)

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Re:Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil ... by AnthonyMouse on Friday July 12, 2019 @06:22PM (#20425048)

The weird thing about fixed price grid attachment is that it encourages people to disconnect from the grid and to not install local solar to begin with.

If you pay a fixed price for the grid then your price per kWh goes down and it makes less sense to put solar panels on your roof because they need to beat the lower price per kWh unless you can get entirely off the grid.

But then you do have the incentive to get entirely off the grid if you can, because it gets you out of the grid attachment fee. So it justifies more in the way of batteries to avoid that cost.

In other words, it makes solar + grid attachment unprofitable, so your viable options become full grid or full independence. Then depending on which one has lower costs at scale, it either ends rooftop solar or ends the power grid.

And that could go either way. The power grid has economies of scale, but it also has transmission costs that don't exist for local generation, so which one wins?

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Re:Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil ... by hokkos on Saturday July 13, 2019 @03:01AM (#20426898)

Almost nobody does that, because solar + batteries would need so much batteries for winter that it is completely unpratical. The only people that I know doing that are extreme ecologist in remote places. And grid access is so cheap like 10€/month.

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Re:Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil ... by sgerenser on Saturday July 13, 2019 @08:57AM (#20427822)

If the grid connection fee is only €10/mo, then that doesn’t sound like it is really covering the full cost. Most US utilities have a monthly fixed fee around that amount. Just checked and mine is $15.05/mo. That fee is basically arbitrary and if everyone went solar and was only buying a nominal amount of energy from the grid there’s no way a few bucks a month from each customer would support the whole thing.

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Re:Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil ... by cortesoft on Friday July 12, 2019 @07:06PM (#20425317)

Except if we go that route, people who use very little power will get screwed, since the cost of the grid hookup might be a large percentage of their total power cost. This will disproportionally hurt poor people (who don't have a ton of gadgets using power, don't have the money to build solar, but still need some electricity)

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Re:Giant batteries and cheap solar power are shoving fossil ... by greglindahl on Saturday July 13, 2019 @12:09AM (#20426444)

In most of the US, industrial users pay a fixed price for grid usage, plus a variable charge for energy.

It's residential users who usually don't have a split bill like that.

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