BMWs CEO left recently because he did not execute quickly enough on their electric strategy squandering their initial lead.
Finally after years and years of saying it was around the corner. Lets see the price and specs. I think they still havent released those details?
BMW and Mercedes have made similar investments in all electric platforms.
What you mean is, BMW and Mercedes have made similar noises about getting really good at EVs in a few years time but so far have produced nothing of much relevance. The BMW i3 was pretty good for its time but then they disbanded the team, goodness knows what boardroom nonsense was going on there.
I don't know why it is so popular to repeat this over and over because it seems palpably ridiculous to me.
Everybody has plenty of experience with electrically powered appliances, and many if not most of them only last a few years. I'm not suggesting this is inherent, just that there is no reason to consider them simpler or necessarily more reliable.
If there were washing machines or smartphones that you could expect to last decades, then I would find the idea of EVs being super reliable more plausible.
https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20...
Reliability isn't as simple as "it's an EV".
Audi e-Tron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uHlohyKLlQ
Audi e-Tron GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvNw15W_EK8
Audi Q4 e-Tron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiwevzHsCbU
Porsche Taycan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrVkOQojN4Y
Porsche Macan: https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/26/18240862/porsche-macan-el...
VW ID.3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE
SEAT el-Born: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ShA3l0BHGs
Skoda Vision iV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f1g9xl6W_E
VW ID Crozz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8zbuvzEA5A
VW ID Buzz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQut6ks3nSY
VW ID Roomzz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzP6NOGNIWo
The ones actually launched (e-tron only I think?) have been disappointing. The e-tron has a huge 90kwh battery and only 205 miles of range. People can make excuses for it but the reality is that is an engineering failure.
All the other MEB models that are supposed to be coming soon - all we've got is jazzy names and concept car mock ups. Yet to see production car, price or specs on any of those.
Perhaps they have some technical advance up their sleeves. But imho the chances are this big new MEB platform is 75% pr puff. There's a good chance that the things their going to actually launch will be on par with the 2016 Nissan Leaf. That's what just happened with BMWs electric Mini.
So let's talk when they announce actual dates, prices and specs. For now I'm skeptical.
You should actually watch the videos. Does that Taycan look like a mock up to you?
The VW ID.3 is not a jazzy name. They had 20,000 pre-bookings a month ago:
https://www.electrive.com/2019/06/05/vw-marks-20000-pre-orde...
> For now I'm skeptical.
It doesn't matter if you're skeptical or not. Volkswagen is not spending 80 billion euros on EVs for the fun of it:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-insig...
Ok the ID3 is a reasonable name, But we still don't know what this supposed flagship is going to look like. It's definitely not going to look like the pics they've released so far. But Crozz, Buzz and Roomz seem like pr names rather than actual production car names.
If they really are investing all that money I would expect a lot of delays because they'll need to actually deliver something good rather than a cop out for that amount of cash.
So let's meet back here in 12 months and see how the ID3 pans out.
The Model S overheats when doing a lap at a racetrack. It's not a performance car:
https://insideevs.com/news/323053/tesla-model-s-fails-to-lap...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfZLGIs0H14
> Ok the ID3 is a reasonable name, But we still don't know what this supposed flagship is going to look like
Of course we do. Have a look:
https://insideevs.com/news/359253/production-parts-vw-id3-st...
https://insideevs.com/news/359217/vw-id3-light-camo-rechargi...
https://insideevs.com/news/359140/video-vw-tease-id3-dashboa...
Re: the id3: there's no way it's going to look like the concept car images they have released. Unless I've missed something they are going to reveal the production version in September.
There's no need to hope. The Porsche Taycan has already done sub 8 minutes at the Nurburgring according to Mark Webber:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohHEdaRhF1k
What's the Model 3's best Nurburgring time?
> Re: the id3: there's no way it's going to look like the concept car images they have released.
Okay, you're clearly not looking at the links. Here's yet another test drive:
I am looking at the links. One of them is about a camouflaged ID3 being spotted a few days ago. Why is it camouflaged? Because the production version has not been revealed yet. Everything shown so far has been prototypes. Admittedly the prototypes have been getting a bit more realistic in styling. I like the look of it. I'm just saying, no specs yet and production version is yet to be unveiled. I hope they can come up with something better than BMW just did. And better than the e-tron they launched earlier this year.
Look at the links.
It's not meant as an excuse for the old guard, but making billions per year by selling ICEs doesn't make it easier to launch good EVs. Without Tesla, it would never happen.
While you suggest 200 miles or forget it, I suggest that 250 or near it is the absolute requirement for ENTRY level cars. Now a rental fleet, like how they do scooters, could fare well with sub 100 mile cars. Premium cars need to set their bottom level at 300 miles or more.
Remember, all these range numbers are at 100% battery capacity and mild to warm weather. Hence we should not accept less than 300 now. Tesla has been there for years and there is no excuse for any premium brand not doing the same.
As mentioned in another article, I really get the idea the BMW exec recent step down was resulting in part because of that laughable new Mini
re: 300 miles you're probably right, although things are a bit different in Europe where everything is closer together and non-Tesla charging infrastructure is generally better.
Here's an interesting article: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115366_opel-to-swap-am...
[The new electric Corsa] will supplant the larger Ampera-e electric car, which launched last year to great enthusiasm in some markets but has since appeared to be in very limited supply, according to numerous complaints by interested buyers.
Just 1,971 units of the Opel Ampera-e were sold throughout Europe, according to JATO Dynamics.
Look good except for the weird plastic inserts on the allow wheels.
They were around £40k or something though which ain’t cheap
I think its more down to the public. They offer EVs but most buyers stick with ICEs.
Because the Tesla sedans combine the driving experience and technological features of a nice German car with the green points of a Prius so white collar professionals buy them in droves (it's the best of both worlds so of course they do).
Basically all the other EVs are competing with economy cars and crossover mom mobiles where the competition is much stiffer and the buyers more frugal. Nobody buying a Tesla is saying "gee, I could buy an Accord and put all that money toward gas" whereas basically every Bolt and Leaf buyer is making that comparison to the Sonic and the Versa.
Tesla is hoping to sell 400,000 this year: https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/07/10/tesla-is-about-to-...
Toyota will sell over 10 million: https://www.jato.com/global-car-market-remains-stable-during...
> Or some other reason
ICE cars are a lot cheaper than EVs.
You can refute that claim in many ways, but none of them refer to current sales.
That's not really fair. You can't buy a Renault Zoe in my country (US), even though it is by most accounts a great electric car. I don't get to ignore their entire lineup, just because they don't happen to sell them here -- the world is bigger than any one particular country.
The Bolt is quite good, it's highly competitive against modern EVs, and the only reason it's sold "at loss" is because they sell out instantly, and can't make more of them fast enough to fulfill all demand -- a problem they are actively trying to fix https://electrek.co/2018/07/03/gm-increasing-chevy-bolt-ev-p...
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/30/gm-stands-to-lose-9000-dolla...
GM Finally Admits That Chevrolet Bolt Was Never Profitable (2019)
https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/
Thats why they didn't try very hard to sell them in the USA or anywhere else.
The parent said "so its not on my radar, and they didn't bother trying to sell any" which is true, and from my reading, fairly neutral.
September 9, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- The Volkswagen Group has set its sights on global market leadership in electric mobility. "We are starting at exactly the right time. We are electrifying all vehicle classes, and therefore have everything we need to make the Volkswagen Group the top automaker in all respects, including electric mobility, by 2018", Prof. Dr. Martin Winterkorn, CEO of Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft, said on the eve of the 65th International Motor Show in Frankfurt am Main.
https://tass.com/press-releases/700457
So far its been bullshit from most* of the incumbents because the boardrooms can't give up on the idea of ICE.
* Honourable mention to Hyundai and Kia who have cars on the road that can genuinely compete with Tesla. Unfortunately they can't source enough batteries to make many of them.
* And ok Nissan and BMW and co had quite good 120-mile range EVs a few years ago but thats all history now, its 200 miles or forget it from now on.
* ok yeah the Bolt was quite good but they didn't bother launching it in my country (uk) so its not on my radar, and they didn't bother trying to sell any cos they were making them at a huge loss
* ok Nissan do have a 200+ mile range Leaf now so I'll give them credit for that. There are general concerns about price and lack of battery cooling though.