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Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by yongjik on Thursday July 11, 2019 @02:28PM (#20414077)
As an ex-Googler, I'd like to say that "ordinary people" still won't understand what privacy they're giving up. Before the news, they underestimated it; not they overestimate it, but still without clear understanding of what's happening.

A group of researchers listening to a random sample of audio clip with no way to identify actual speakers is very different from someone being able to look up your name and address and pull down your conversation for leisure. (To be fair, the latter is technically not impossible - it's just that such an act will likely trigger half a dozen alarms, and the perpetrator will be fired quickly. Unless it's the government secretly asking for your information - but then, if the government is specifically looking for you, all bets are off anyway.)

It's basically the same as Google search. If you type anything into Google's search box, your search will be recorded and preserved forever so that Google's engineers can analyze usage patterns. How else would they improve their search algorithm?

Edit: I probably shouldn't have used "forever" - I don't know exactly how long your search results will be preserved. If it helps, consider it replaced by "long enough that someone can write a TechCrunch article that enrages people".

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by reaperducer on Thursday July 11, 2019 @02:38PM (#20414165)
How else would they improve their search algorithm?

There are lots of ways. Ways that other industries test and refine without violating privacy.

One example: Having a group of people who sign up to be part of your testing. That way there's informed consent.

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by Zhyl on Thursday July 11, 2019 @03:10PM (#20414532)
>If you type anything into Google's search box, your search will be recorded and preserved forever so that Google's engineers can analyze usage patterns. How else would they improve their search algorithm?

Or only retain the data for a set period of time. You can refine indexes with 6-12 months of data. You'd only want to keep unaggregated data for more than that if you were building profiles of individual people.

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by ablatner on Thursday July 11, 2019 @11:11PM (#20417785)
You can delete your data from your Google account though.
Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by UncleMeat on Thursday July 11, 2019 @02:50PM (#20414288)
That's what happens now. You you check the "use my data to improve xyz services" box.
Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by GrapeFriedNiggr on Thursday July 11, 2019 @03:05PM (#20414459)
Well yeah, but it would be way more expensive and you would have orders of magnitude less data. There are also issues with biased sampling.

Point being, the search wouldn't be as good.

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by dang on Thursday July 11, 2019 @11:02PM (#20417746)
Trollish usernames aren't allowed on HN because they end up trolling each thread you post to.

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

I've banned this account for now, but if you want to email [email protected] a new username, we can rename the account and unban it for you.

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by ryandrake on Thursday July 11, 2019 @03:23PM (#20414716)
This assumes a fixed definition of “good.” I would argue that the search would be better because it was done using data collected only from parties who have given consent.

You can define “good” in terms of cost, revenue, sampling bias, relevance, etc. I can define it in terms of ethical data collection and usage. Who’s to say which definition is correct?

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by nocturnial on Thursday July 11, 2019 @02:54PM (#20414329)
>A group of researchers listening to a random sample of audio clip with no way to identify actual speakers

Actually the journalists who obtained those audio clips identified several people. Those who were willing to talk on camera confirmed it was indeed their voices.

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by mtgx on Thursday July 11, 2019 @03:00PM (#20414389)
> not they overestimate it

I disagree with this because you're assuming that Google "just training its systems with this data" doesn't mean that it will do "anything nefarious" with it.

Oh, yes, it totally will. That's the entire point. I don't see Google as much more ethical than say Facebook these days. They'll screw their users for an extra buck in the next quarterly results just as much.

Why do you think they're now helping China spy on their citizens? They didn't have to do it. But the call of (more) money is irresistible.

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by everbane on Thursday July 11, 2019 @09:50PM (#20417453)
>if the government is specifically looking for you, all bets are off anyway.

That's not really how it's done though. The government would pipe all the data into something like Palantir, not request individual data piecemeal.

Re:Google admits listening to some smart speaker recordings by danso on Thursday July 11, 2019 @03:22PM (#20414701)
How would you explain to an ordinary user why it's necessary for "your search will be recorded and preserved forever" in order to improve the search algorithm? As opposed to a limited timeframe?