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Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by pdonis on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @05:22PM (#20406712)
On my smartphone I can at least turn off the apps that would automatically listen for voice commands; I can use the phone just fine without them. And if I thought there was enough of a threat that Google or someone else was listening in using my phone's microphone without my knowledge, even with the apps turned off, I would switch to a rooted phone that would give me more control.

For the Echo/Google Home/etc. devices, I don't have any of the above options, so I simply don't buy them and don't use them.

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by rurban on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @05:45PM (#20406935)
Even a rooted phone will not help, since the monopolistic baseband processor will do it. The big ARM CPU is just for the users, the baseband is for control of the public masses and mass surveillance.
Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by Iolaum on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @06:53PM (#20407422)
The surveillance problem is not black and white. A rooted phone may not help you if a state actor is after you, but it will help against companies that make money by building an invasive profile of who you are and what you do. Again how much a rooted phone helps in that depends on how many ties you want to cut with the digital-advertising ecosystem.

Here's a paper describing the privacy invasive and potentially harmful properties of pre-installed apps [1]. I specifically saved this paper in my files so I can have a comprehensive answer when people ask me why I go through the trouble of rooting my devices.

P.S. People who know more than me are saying that the baseband processor can be restricted with hardware practices such as IOMMU [2]. I don't really know how effective that can be.

[1]: https://haystack.mobi/papers/preinstalledAndroidSW_preprint....

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20151431

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by pdonis on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @08:06PM (#20407889)
> the monopolistic baseband processor will do it

The baseband processor isn't running Siri or Google Voice on my phone. Yes, if the state has a back door into the baseband processor there's not much I can do about it, but that's not the threat model that I'm avoiding by not using devices like the Echo or Google Home.

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by taneq on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @09:18PM (#20408280)
> that's not the threat model that I'm avoiding by not using devices like the Echo or Google Home.

100% this. IF a state intelligence agency is after my data they'll get it somehow (most likely just by asking). My concern is the rampant dragnet aggregation of personal data that I didn't expressly provide them by companies like Google and Facebook. I mean, Google having access to your emails that you store in Gmail? Kind of understandable. Google buying MasterCard transaction records to cross-reference against your web browsing data as tracked by any site using Google Analytics? No.

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by misterprime on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @06:54PM (#20407429)
I tend to believe you, but I'd love to see some material to back up your suspicions.
Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by basch on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @06:28PM (#20407261)
Theres a mute button on the echo. You can turn voice off just the same as you can on a phone.
Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by pdonis on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @08:03PM (#20407870)
> Theres a mute button on the echo.

Which defeats the whole purpose of having it, namely, to respond to voice commands.

> You can turn voice off just the same as you can on a phone.

I don't have to turn off voice altogether on my phone, I just have to turn off the apps that I don't trust. On an Echo, either I turn it off and might as well not have it, or I turn it on and it's recording everything. There's no middle ground where I get some basic functionality without being spied on.

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by tzs on Thursday July 11, 2019 @01:41AM (#20409384)
> On an Echo, either I turn it off and might as well not have it, or I turn it on and it's recording everything. There's no middle ground where I get some basic functionality without being spied on.

I'd guess that most people could effectively find a middle ground by treating the Echo as if it were someone in a cordial but not really friends relationship with a family member, such as a classmate of one of you kids over to discuss a school project, or a member of your spouse's church over to discuss planning the annual church picnic.

If they are doing things that they would not mind such a person overhearing, have the Echo on. If they are doing things that they would not do until such a person leaves, have the Echo off.

It would be interesting to give these home voice assistants faces, including eyes that look at and track people it is listening to when they speak, to help people remember that it is still listening to them. That might make it easier to remember to turn it off before discussing sensitive things in its presence.

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 11, 2019 @06:10AM (#20410400)
The analogy you make is helpful, but it immediately brings attention to one thing: you generally don' invite "someone in a cordial but not really friends relationship with a family member" to stay with you all the time, day and night. People you do let stay with you are people whom you either trust, or expect to trust as the relationship develops. There's no relationship development with an Echo - it's forever an agent of a faceless corporation that's indifferent to you.
Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by taneq on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @09:12PM (#20408247)
There's also the perma-mute button which you can activate by not buying one in the first place.
Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by mattrp on Thursday July 11, 2019 @01:29AM (#20409346)
My kids left Alexa outside over a rainy weekend. Cest la vie!
Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by michaelmrose on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @06:44PM (#20407368)
Turns out the NSA has an implant for smart tvs that among its features is keeping the tv on and recording you while turning the indicator light that indicates its on status off.

You don't own the device despite paying for it. It updates itself when it feels like it and does whatever its actual owner says including compromising itself if told to.

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by pnutjam on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @10:43PM (#20408704)
Not without internet.
Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by serf on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @11:15PM (#20408841)
my parents smart tv has over a gig of storage for apps.

i'd be really surprised if that couldn't act as an offline cache.

Re:Google employees are listening to Google Home conversations by pnutjam on Thursday July 11, 2019 @03:36PM (#20414899)
still needs internet to fill that cache, don't use the smart tv part, or whitelist it at the router.