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Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by dgreensp on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:56AM (#20383784)
I’m reminded of a similar online NY Times piece I read, years ago, I think by a woman named Gladys, which was entirely about the harrowing process of procrastinating on, and eventually writing, the piece. All I could think was, poor Gladys. Not, here’s an authority on procrastination. Heck, I’m more of an authority on procrastination, based on my high school and college years alone, not even counting that I’ve overcome it in my 30s.

There is so much better advice than “just get it done” (isn’t that like telling a commitment-phobe, nobody’s perfect, so just pick someone and commit? I’m sure someone, somewhere, has given themselves that advice and taken it, with positive results, but it’s kind of questionable advice in general).

For example, “meditate” is good advice. Let the anxiety come up; allow it to flow, and leave; see it without judging it or trying to figure it out. Even realizing your problem with starting is an anxiety problem, and feeling the feeling in your body, is a huge step. Maybe noting some beliefs that contribute to it. “Journal” is good advice. Practice writing in your voice, and the act of writing. Journal about your anxiety. Learn to enjoy your writing. Practice will improve the quality. Discounting quality will not help.

Stories about how I procrastinated on something for a month and then late one night managed to forget my usual thought patterns for an hour and do it? I have hundreds of those from my past. There is some information in the thoughts I had when finally doing it (“I get it! You just do it!”), but not relative to the information you will get from going inwards and asking how to change your own patterns of feelings, thoughts, and behaviors.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by ohazi on Monday July 08, 2019 @12:40PM (#20384192)
I often tell myself to "just start" rather than to "just get it done," especially when I suspect my anxiety is driving.

If I tell myself I'm just going to sit down and pretend-work on the thing that's making me anxious for five minutes, just to get a feel for it, and if it ends up being crappy, I'll just toss it and start over later, I'm usually able to short-circuit the anxious "everything must be well-understood and perfectly optimized before you even start, or you're going to fail, because this problem is crazy hard" part of my brain.

Usually five minutes turns into 45 minutes, and I either finish, or conclude that it wasn't so bad after all.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by TuringNYC on Monday July 08, 2019 @03:21PM (#20385849)
>> I often tell myself to "just start" rather than to "just get it done," especially when I suspect my anxiety is driving.

Same here, and specifically for tech work: I try to start with a unit test and a random-generator algo. Getting that trivial thing to run is often the activation energy I need to get started on writing the main workhorse functions.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by lallysingh on Monday July 08, 2019 @03:42PM (#20386053)
Exactly. Seed, trunk, branches. They last thing you want is to build something big that, when it does the wrong thing, leaves you with too much code that you're not sure about.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by Buttons840 on Monday July 08, 2019 @01:40PM (#20384871)
> pretend-work

I pretend I'm live streaming my programming session, it seems to cause some switch to flip in my brain and seems to help.

Maybe I should actually live stream? But I probably wouldn't have real viewers, and don't know how to fit multiple monitors into a stream.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by koolba on Monday July 08, 2019 @01:57PM (#20385081)
I'm convinced that the majority of the value from pair programming (literally sitting next to each other, not "virtual" pair programming) comes from the fear of looking like a lazy idiot in front of the other programmer.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by mathieuh on Monday July 08, 2019 @02:07PM (#20385184)
Hah same here. Half the time I ask someone to pair with me it’s because I simply cannot muster the motivation to do anything for whatever reason. I find I go through a couple of weeks of this a couple of times a year, I guess you’d call it mild burnout.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by lixtra on Monday July 08, 2019 @10:30PM (#20388535)
If you assume mild burnout, do you think it’s long term the right strategy to force yourself through it? What would your body have to do to tell you that it’s not mild anymore? What if it does? Take care!
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by brennebeck on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @11:41AM (#20392868)
Just a bit of anecdotal experience for additional thought: I did the same for years, ignoring the signs, pushing through long hours, etc. and eventually developed idiopathic epilepsy. As it’s idiopathic, there’s no known direct cause (e.g. no head trauma, no tumors, etc.), but there’s a decent amount of evidence that supports at least a strong correlation between my lifestyle (lack of sleep, overwork, etc.) and the development of the disease. And of course lack of sleep is now one of my primary triggers, but that’s also fairly common amongst epileptics once the disease is ‘active’.

Best wishes GP.

Edit: point really being: it’s mild burnout until it’s not.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by filoleg on Monday July 08, 2019 @02:32PM (#20385404)
^that + usually when you pair program, you try to explain your thought process and reasons behind the decisions you make to another person, and in doing so, you actually end up delivering. And learning the material through explaining it to others is a very effective and very known technique, so that makes sense.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by dan_quixote on Monday July 08, 2019 @02:47PM (#20385553)
I think it's more related to having to communicate your problem(s) and intention(s) to someone else. I often find myself overwhelmed by tasks at work and home. The best solution is a to-do list, but even reciting out loud the steps necessary is enough to calm the anxiety and focus.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by koolba on Monday July 08, 2019 @03:03PM (#20385702)
I don’t think communication has anything to do with it. It’s just shame.

I tested this out once with a friend who complained about procrastination issues. I suggested he have his wife sit by him while working from home. His wife has no programming background whatsoever but she knows that browsing Reddit or YouTube isn’t work. Apparently he got a lot done that day.

Free Startup Idea: Supply “interns” to shadow employees to create the same effect. Logo could be a Peter Pan style comic of a programmer and his silhouette.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by phkahler on Monday July 08, 2019 @03:45PM (#20386085)
>> His wife has no programming background whatsoever but she knows that browsing Reddit or YouTube isn’t work.

Or Hacker News...

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by TeMPOraL on Monday July 08, 2019 @05:27PM (#20386924)
Oh yes indeed. My wife can spot the orange banner from a mile out. She also knows when I'm instinctively alt-tabbing as I hear her coming near. For tasks where I know what to do and just need to code it, I'm easily 2x as productive with my wife around, and that's after accounting for the distraction of us talking about stuff.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by TeMPOraL on Monday July 08, 2019 @05:29PM (#20386950)
Strongly agreed; that is my impression and experience as well. Two people paired up keep each other in check. I sometimes find it stressful and exhausting, but it's hard to deny the productivity boost.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by lacampbell on Monday July 08, 2019 @10:34PM (#20388560)
There's a few people online I talk to working on completely different side projects than me. Maybe I should suggest pair-programming remotely to them.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by wademealing on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @03:54AM (#20389774)
You dont, usually.. I keep one for the code and the other for the browser/private stuff.

You can setup a 'scene' in obs to switch to the other window if you need to, but keeping it focused on your editor/work display really helps those private moments slip to the stream less often.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by KyleBrandt on Monday July 08, 2019 @04:55PM (#20386671)
Jordan Peterson has talked about getting something started in the context of "negotiating with yourself" to get past anticipatory anxiety. In short you have a conversation with yourself and agree on some minimal step forward, even if it is seemingly trivial.

Basically it goes something like "Do I agree to update my resume tomorrow?", "No.", "Am I willing to open up my past resume, and just add the companies, positions, and dates?", "Okay, I can do that".

So you realistically go back and forth with yourself until you find some step, even if it seems pathetic, that won't cause much anticipatory anxiety. Then sincerely feel good about getting that step done, because it is infinitely better than do nothing.

I have found that to be a useful mental tool/trick - will edit if I can find the reference because he conveys the concept much better.

Edit References:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfQZcpaBqo4&t=5475s "CV Writing Example"

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-kWEDr6VS0&t=3462s "I don’t even have the conscientiousness to sit down and do Self Authoring. I bought it over a year ago and haven’t opened it. What the hell is wrong with me?" (A little more funny, similar thing)

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by lpellis on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @09:35AM (#20391543)
Joel also had a good essay on this, fire and motion. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by mjlangiii on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @06:14AM (#20390343)
When you say you want to completely understand the problem before starting, your personality sounds like an enneagram type 5, check it out to see if that describes you. If so, that might shine a lot of light on where your anxiety comes from.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by SPBesui on Monday July 08, 2019 @12:58PM (#20384378)
There's a good TED talk on procrastination which might interest you: https://www.ted.com/talks/tim_urban_inside_the_mind_of_a_mas...
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by jcranendonk on Monday July 08, 2019 @01:50PM (#20384999)
Eh, I'll get to it later.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by nestorherre on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @12:47PM (#20393775)
Oh, the irony.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by dgreensp on Monday July 08, 2019 @02:07PM (#20385192)
I love that guy, but I think the best use of this level of awareness into the mechanics of your procrastination — the elaborate story — is to realize it’s just a story. The moment you really realize this, the story changes.
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by agumonkey on Monday July 08, 2019 @02:57PM (#20385647)
I personally ended up in the 'just get it done'. I find it very very effective.

I tried many other approaches, sliced tasks, meditation etc.. and no amount of sugarcoating made me evolve.

Mentally overcoming the drag was key in my own experience.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by nerdponx on Monday July 08, 2019 @12:43PM (#20384219)
"Mediate" and "journal" are two specific solutions. The general answer is "figure out what's stopping you from getting something done and take steps to mitigate or reduce it."
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by gowld on Monday July 08, 2019 @12:58PM (#20384382)
That's barely a restatement of the question "how do I stop procrastinating", not an answer.

Advice like "find a way to start, and finishing will come later" is at least a substantial step forward. (But still incomplete, as it doesn't solve the problems of distraction, meandering, prioritization, time management, perfectionism)

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by TeMPOraL on Monday July 08, 2019 @05:39PM (#20387026)
It's not a restatement of the question; it's an algorithm.

The problem with procrastination is that it has so many different potential causes and idiosyncrasies that a random advice from the Internet or self-help literature isn't likely to work long-term (once the novelty factor wears off, which for me is usually around a week). The solution really seems to be to keep trying all of the advice, one after another, in combinations and with personal modifications, until something sticks and you start to do better.

For me personally, what seems to have stuck is, in order:

- Doing a "mind dump" whenever I'm overwhelmed by anxiety or confused by what to do. It usually calms me down and clears my head.

- Doing work in pomodoros to reduce the starting anxiety; setting a modest goal of pomodoros to achieve any given work day to consider it a win.

- Most recently, a perverted form of Unschedule. I tried Unschedule and started failing after just 3 days, but I twisted it into the following form: I don't schedule/unschedule anything at all, but just reward myself with 1 point of "guilt-free play" per each 2 work pomodoros completed. I get to spend the points on whatever hobby project or videogame or other fun activity I want, without feeling any guilt or obligation or pressure to do something else. The ratio is somewhat arbitrary (like, e.g., 1 point = 1 flight in Kerbal Space Program), but that doesn't matter. What I realized is that I started to like raking in GFP points, and then spending them in bursts on some projects I previously kept in a "someday/maybe" list. I find myself thinking, "hey, let's work some more, gotta earn GFP points to burn in a couple of days on $project". It seems that I like accumulating them just in anticipation of spending them.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by nerdponx on Monday July 08, 2019 @06:50PM (#20387486)
It's not a restatement of the question; it's an algorithm.

This is what I meant, thank you for stepping in to clarify.

Figuring out "what's wrong" in a case like this isn't always easy. Sometimes you don't actually need to know the underlying reason, and mediation or journaling just works and that's all you ever need to do.

Other times it's not so easy. That's when other interventions like psychotherapy (not just the traditional headshrink-and-couch version) can become relevant and important.

Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by X6S1x6Okd1st on Monday July 08, 2019 @01:16PM (#20384600)
I've found that I'm generally more productive and happier when I both meditate and journal, but I can't say which way causality flows
Re:It’s Never Going to Be Perfect, So Just Get It Done by temporaryvector on Monday July 08, 2019 @02:28PM (#20385372)
>I can't say which way causality flows

In my personal experience, it flows both ways. It's a positive feedback loop. When I'm productive, I'm happier, even if being productive means meditating or practicing mindfulness (as long as the dread that comes with "wasting time" is not there, all good), and when I'm happier, I can be more productive. The hard part, for me, was getting the loop started, pushing the rock down the mountain, so to say, getting past the first hurdles of procrastination. What helped me was getting professional help and medicine, but I was a pretty bad case.

An analogy I have used to describe this to family before was an internal combustion engine. Normally, once you get an engine started and keep supplying it with fuel, it'll keep generating everything else it needs to keep running. But it still needs a battery and a starter motor to get it running in the first place. Sometimes just getting it running is good enough, and most engines start with one crank, but other times, something is not quite right and it takes a couple of cranks and maybe some starter fluid to get it started. Even once you get it started, maybe the alternator is faulty, so until you get that fixed, you have to keep supplying electricity some other way to keep it running.