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Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by RobertRoberts on Thursday July 04, 2019 @11:49PM (#20359701)
> If it were meaningless, FDAs and other regulatory bodies would not even accept it during the clinical trial design review phase.

Go look up how many corporate stooges are in the place in the FDA over the years.

A good starting point is the history of Aspartame, I'd link some articles, but I suspect the sources would be shot down and evidence ignored. The people at the FDA were complicit in its approval, despite scientific evidence showing it was dangerous.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by Nasrudith on Friday July 05, 2019 @02:01AM (#20360182)
Aspartame is ironically a substance we are most sure of its safety because of how fixed many were on the idea it was dangerous. Few substances were given such exhaustive testing.

The sources would be shot down for a reason and not some vast conspiracy but because the hill they chose to die on wasn't even real.

I would draw the opposite conclusion - safety analysis by whatever becomes a cause is a very poor way to both allocate resources.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by astazangasta on Friday July 05, 2019 @12:51PM (#20363945)
Err, have you acually read the studies they used to approve? They are not unequivocal, and the final approval of it as a drink additive was thanks to Donald Rumsfeld, who was CEO of Searle at the time and had a hand in selecting Arthur Hull Hayes Jr. to head the FDA.
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by andreareina on Friday July 05, 2019 @02:09AM (#20360209)
> I'd link some articles, but I suspect the sources would be shot down and evidence ignored

Why would you say that? This is a serious accusation made without offering evidence and the only effect it can have is to greatly diminish the probability of having a productive debate.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by RobertRoberts on Saturday July 06, 2019 @01:31AM (#20368108)
If you feel like it, look at my previous comments, I post something with evidence and ad hominem attacks ensue. It's exhausting.

I figure some people don't know about this, so they will look it up.

People who are reactive will vote me down regardless of what I say or proof I provide.

There is so much evidence of corporate manipulation of the high level government posts is nauseating.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by andreareina on Saturday July 06, 2019 @05:42AM (#20368822)
I suspect that the sort of person who would be convinced to look it up and decide for themselves would be less likely to do so after reading the sort of comment I replied to.
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by ekianjo on Friday July 05, 2019 @03:40AM (#20360595)
Assuming the FDA is corrupted is one thing, assuming regulatory bodies ACROSS the world are all corrupted at the very same time is just very close to being a ridiculous claim.
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by marcus_holmes on Friday July 05, 2019 @06:15AM (#20361309)
it's known as "regulatory capture" and it's extremely common.

Most planning authorities worldwide are captured by property developers.

The more money involved in an industry, the more likely it is that the industry regulator is captured.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by andrewla on Friday July 05, 2019 @07:02AM (#20361541)
Regulatory capture will mean that outsiders - small companies without big pharma connections - will find it difficult to get effective drugs approved.

Similarly, innovative ways of proving drug effectiveness, even if they are more efficient and accurate, will be difficult to bring into practice.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by RobertRoberts on Saturday July 06, 2019 @01:32AM (#20368110)
Humans are the same everywhere. Corruption is universal.
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by abrichr on Thursday July 04, 2019 @11:56PM (#20359722)
I would appreciate links to articles on the subject, if you have them handy!
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by Alex3917 on Friday July 05, 2019 @12:06AM (#20359759)
The tl;dr is that the same guys who fabricated the evidence about Saddam Hussein having WMDs also fabricated evidence for aspartame being safe.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-rumsfeld-and-the-s_b_8...

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by ben_w on Friday July 05, 2019 @02:12AM (#20360222)
Did Donald Rumsfeld also convince the European Union, who have their own interests and a similar sized economy, that it was safe? https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/131210 or the “more than 90 countries worldwide” [1] that the Canadian government refers to on their own website? https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/food-nutriti...

There are certainly cases where I don’t trust USA regulations. This just isn’t one of them.

[1] number includes EU and US, but that still leaves more than sixty others.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by darkpuma on Friday July 05, 2019 @02:13PM (#20364525)
Perhaps they consulted with somebody who's an expert at lying to Europeans, such as Tony Blair. ;)
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by fit2rule on Friday July 05, 2019 @05:03AM (#20360957)
There is a big difference between what law-makers/legislators think is safe in the context of their desire to promote the economies of their commercial partners, and what scientists consider safe in the context of human health and safety.

The two cannot be conflated.

Scientists can call for something to be re-considered, safety-wise, long after legislators have put their deals to bed. There are countless examples of this throughout history, where researchers, engineers, scientists have had to struggle very hard to get politicians - who have their own interests - to address the issue.

Too many times, research which runs counter to economic narratives is ignored or, worse, suppressed in order that people can 'continue living their lives as consumers unhindered'.

Suggesting that people bow to the authority of legislators over that of human-health scientists serves only to perpetuate the conditions which endanger us all.

Remember, asbestos was once 'scientifically and legally proven to be safe' at one point. Too many times in history, what the collective thinks is safe is only so, because the collective ("everyone thinks the same") says so ..

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by dredmorbius on Friday July 05, 2019 @06:07AM (#20361279)
asbestos was once 'scientifically and legally proven to be safe'

Source?

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by dredmorbius on Friday July 05, 2019 @12:07PM (#20363575)
The history of associating disease with asbestos exposure dates to the ancient Greeks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos-related_diseases#Hist...

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by Pimpus on Friday July 05, 2019 @03:24AM (#20360520)
Most of these same countries also outlawed dmt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your argument is basically just an appeal to authority.

As far as artificial sweeteners go, you'd have to be an idiot to knowingly consume an unnatural, laboratory made chemical.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by TeMPOraL on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:31AM (#20360817)
> As far as artificial sweeteners go, you'd have to be an idiot to knowingly consume an unnatural, laboratory made chemical.

Don't worry, I stripped the <natural> XML tags from regular sugar and mixed them up with my aspartame; it cheats reality into thinking that the sweetener is natural, preventing it from hurting me.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by ben_w on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:02AM (#20360701)
Authorities are called such for a reason. It is only a fallacy to invoke an authority who is unrelated to the subject, or if your opponent is also an authority.

> As far as artificial sweeteners go, you'd have to be an idiot to knowingly consume an unnatural, laboratory made chemical.

On the subject of fallacies, this one is called the “appeal to nature”.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by donatzsky on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:11AM (#20360745)
If said authorities were infallible, I'd agree with you. Unfortunately that is rarely the case.
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by AstralStorm on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:36AM (#20360846)
Nature is full of poisons too. Sugar is one! (In the right big and/or chronic dose. Organisms have to deal with glycation damage all the time.)
Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by TeMPOraL on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:29AM (#20360806)
"Not infallible" doesn't mean "always wrong". Just because FDA made some mistakes, doesn't mean you can start doing the opposite of everything they say and live a happy and healthy life.

Authorities may be "in the pocket of Big Pharma", but by default, I'd still trust them much more than yours or mine non-expert opinion.

Re:“Evidence-based medicine has been hijacked”: John Ioannid... by ben_w on Friday July 05, 2019 @07:35AM (#20361706)
Authorities don’t have to be infallible to have a better track record than anyone else. If they did, we wouldn’t have senior software engineers, we would have the pointy head boss writing all the code; we wouldn’t have doctors, as everybody’s home remedy would be just as good; we wouldn’t have CEOs, as communism would be correct and the workers would be more effective at running their businesses than the owners ever were (hello ironic counterpoint); etc.

Of course, everybody including authorities is capable of making mistakes. It is generally a bigger mistake to think you know better than they do. Not always, but generally.