> I'm always sad when I'm the only one opting for a patdown at the airport after Defcon.

I made the decision that I was okay handing over personal information one time to get TSA Pre if it meant I could skip the naked scanners, not have to take off my shoes, avoid patdowns etc.

Generally when I'm coming back from Defcon I have a whole lot of stuff with me that I'd really rather avoid having someone take a closer look at.

I still strongly respect people that take a stronger stance than I.

Probably that's because I didn't travel to USA yet, but I don't understand why it's sad. Why the hell would you opt for a patdown? What must be the default then?

New tech allows lasers to identify a person from a great distance, even from a drone, using a laser that can analyze a persons heart beat.

[1] https://futurism.com/the-byte/laser-identify-distance-heartb... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24111284

They're already gathering facial recognition biometrics, and I wouldn't be surprised if they've been doing gait analysis biometric identifiers (it's established tech). Adding heart rate would give them three separate identifiers that can be used to identify anyone in a crowd with practically complete confidence.

These: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray

In the UK these are banned, and you can only use millimetre wave scanners with software interpretation, meaning agents can't see the raw (naked) images of you, just the software-identified anomalies layered on top of a stick figure drawing.

Most airports have moved to millimeter wave instead of x-ray: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millimeter_wave_scanner

What's the problem with these exactly?

The fact a stranger gets to look at me naked is undignified - like if someone was hiding spy cameras in gym showers, or walking up to people in public and pulling down their trousers.

From a Defcon angle, it's also an information security risk; even large government bodies have fallen victim to cryptolockers, so it's not like the government-grade IT security keeping the photos secure is impenetrable.

The 'reassurance' that I'm too ugly and unimportant for anyone to take particular interest in does nothing to restore this dignity :)

They show you naked and invade your privacy

And have not been used in the US for 6 years

(from the wikipedia article linked above)

> In the United States, the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 required that all full-body scanners operated in airports by the Transportation Security Administration use "Automated Target Recognition" software, which replaces the picture of a nude body with the cartoon-like representation.[3] As a result of this law, all backscatter X-ray machines formerly in use by the Transportation Security Administration were removed from airports by May 2013, since the agency said the vendor (Rapiscan) did not meet their contractual deadline to implement the software.[4]

Yep. I refused the backscatter scanner when they first came out because of radiation and nude scans, but now that they've changed that I think it's fine.

"Naked" is a real stretch. It's basically a black and white, lumpy x-ray viewed from a remote control room.

Not really. Have a look at some old images http://www.news.ch/US+Marshals+sammeln+Nacktscannerbilder/45...

That's the reason why there are more recent devices that hide the nudity and only show abstract figures with suspicious body areas highlighted.

But the airport visitors has no way of knowing what generation the software is, i.e. whether they are visible in the nude or not. Also, the unmodified images by still be stored on the device - who knows?

Would Obama, Trump, and their wives be happy to have their scans available for public viewing? If it's obvious they wouldn't, it should be obvious it's an invasion of privacy.

For me, I'm already iffy about the whole thing when it's just me but the thought of putting my kids in one of these things makes me... very unhappy, in a bunch of different ways at once. But so does a stranger feeling them up. I'm not sure how/whether I'll ever be able to fly with them.

Some posters are claiming the screens don't show the raw images anymore, but what happens to those scans? Betting they don't discard them. Ever.

I realize this is a very personal thing, but I've never had a problem with this.

So what if they see me naked? I don't care. There's nothing harmful that can come from that information.

What's your opinion on deepnude?

Revenge porn is terrible, but I don't think that's relevant here. Can you think of a plausible scenario where a backscatter machine's data could be used against someone? They didn't save your face; I don't know what someone would look at. And that's if the machines actually saved any data, which was not supposed to happen.

>And that's if the machines actually saved any data, which was not supposed to happen.

And yet... https://gizmodo.com/one-hundred-naked-citizens-one-hundred-l...

I created fake nudes in high school about 20 years ago... It's always been on the table for an artist to fake them, the only difference in that and deep nudes are that a computer does them. Why is it just now bothering people? Because of the buzz word of deepnude?

In addition to the fact that a computer can create a photograph that is exceedingly realistic with exceedingly little effort, releasing nude photographs of anyone without their consent—fake or not—is a terrible thing to do to another person.

Your youth makes your actions forgivable, but not acceptable.

Radiation exposure is cumulative. It's a small increase in your risk of developing cancer but it's not zero.

Millimeter wave scanners pose essentially no risk of cancer since they're non-ionizing.

They can activate melanocytic nevus (moles) on the skin though.

And their effectiveness is, questionable (Germany reports 54% false positives, TSA reports handguns being concealed successfully in underwear, etc.)

Microwave ovens also produce non-ionizing radiation so I imagine that they would be safe to place one's full body inside as well.

non-ionizing means mostly harmless, but there is no guarantee. Proteins come in lots of shapes and sizes, and non-ionizing radiation can still resonate.

> What must be the default then?

Body scanners.

I opt-out every time. Only once have I even seen anyone else opt-out and that was leaving a tech conference in Vegas.

what do you mean by "after Defcon". Could you please elaborate what you're referring to?