News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by sparkling on Monday July 01, 2019 @09:55AM (#20325255)
So we are just going to ignore the 20% sales tax that got slapped onto the 1.2bn worth of sales? cool
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by lexapro on Monday July 01, 2019 @09:57AM (#20325263)
Which is paid by Apple customers, not Apple.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by mbell on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:26AM (#20325523)
Corporations don't hold tax burden, only people do. Corporate taxes are ultimately paid by shareholders, workers and customers; 'Apple' never pays taxes. In a fairly free global economy, many economists hold that workers bear the brunt of the corporate tax burden.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by Reason077 on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:15AM (#20325420)
> "Which is paid by Apple customers, not Apple."

VAT is paid by businesses, who collect it on behalf of HMRC on any sales they make.

Yes, it adds 20% to the price of goods sold. But you could say this of any tax: if Apple was paying £200m in UK corporate taxes then it's a fair bet that prices would increase to compensate.

What is unfair, however, is the way that multi-nationals can shift profits across borders to low tax countries, putting them at an advantage relative to domestic competition who pay full UK corporate tax rates.

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by AnthonyMouse on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:36AM (#20325644)
> What is unfair, however, is the way that multi-nationals can shift profits across borders to low tax countries, putting them at an advantage relative to domestic competition who pay full UK corporate tax rates.

That unfairness is inherent to corporate income tax. Apple reports profits in Ireland because the rate is lower there, but if the rates were lower in the US or China or some other place where they actually have major operations and they reported profits there instead, the argument that the profits don't belong there falls away even though you have the same end result. And the same disadvantage for domestic companies compared to international ones.

The solution is to stop trying to tax "profit" to begin with and only tax the thing that actually happens in your jurisdiction (e.g. sales, employment, property ownership).

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by youngtaff on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:33AM (#20325613)
It's still paid for by the customer, in a way corporation tax is not
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by CodeFunctor on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:03AM (#20325308)
If you know economics, you should know a tax on the final price of Apples goods will decrease demand; which means both Apple and it's consumers will pay that tax with a shared burden.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by benj111 on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:16AM (#20325425)
If I buy an iphone via a shop who gets to book the vat, the shop or Apple? If its Apple why do they have a greater claim over someone else further up the chain?

If I buy an iphone as part of a Vat registered business I can claim that vat back. So does that Vat get booked twice?

It is paid by consumers because they are the ones that ultimately pay it. Businesses that pay vat can claim it back so that the 'value added' only gets taxed once. Apple has added value, but so have others.

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by heavenlyblue on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:08AM (#20325349)
If you know economics, then you should also know that while demand is proportional to the total asking price, it’s not a linear relationship. So whatever the price is paid, it’s mainly paid by customers.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by benj111 on Monday July 01, 2019 @09:59AM (#20325280)
Apple isnt paying that though, the consumer is.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by tonyedgecombe on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:09AM (#20325364)
It doesn't really make much difference, the consumer sees a price that includes VAT and the tax is paid.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by benj111 on Monday July 01, 2019 @01:08PM (#20327444)
The article is about Apple only paying £3.8m tax, the OP is pointing out they're paying Vat, the implication is they're paying much more. In that situation it does make a difference.
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by tonyedgecombe on Monday July 01, 2019 @03:24PM (#20328827)
If you are looking at it from the perspective of enough tax being paid then it doesn't really matter.

If you are trying to consider whether it is fair then you would dump corporation tax in an instant and start considering capital gains and dividends as normal income.

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by benj111 on Monday July 01, 2019 @06:13PM (#20330258)
Corporation tax is trending down, basically because companies can move where its lowest. I'm not sure where the fairness comes in, what's unfair about corporation tax?

Taxing dividends as income seems sensible, capital gains should be distinct. You can make a loss for a start. The income tends to be lumpier, if you sell you business for $100k should you be taxed as earning $100kpa when that's your income from 5 years work?

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @03:50AM (#20333062)
what's unfair about corporation tax

It's easier for big companies to avoid it giving them an unfair advantage over their smaller competitors.

Also, at least in the UK, it's often used as a way for employees to avoid paying income tax. The tax authorities have been trying to stop this for years with questionable success.

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by benj111 on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @07:24AM (#20333983)
"The tax authorities have been trying to stop this for years with questionable success"

The recent dividend allowance changes have I believe negated the advantages, that's what they're supposed to do at least, you're always going to have problems when the rules are written down, and people can choose when and how they pay themselves in a way that most advantages themselves.

We seem to be on the same page re corporation tax. I wouldn't say its the tax itself that's unfair, just the people 'avoiding' it.

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by loxs on Monday July 01, 2019 @10:55AM (#20325866)
Do you really believe that if Apple wasn't able to reduce its official profits, the iPhone prices wouldn't rise in that country?
Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by benj111 on Monday July 01, 2019 @01:11PM (#20327481)
Is your implication that the tax would be paid anyway?

You could equally say that if Apple didn't exist, people would buy a smartphone anyway, so the Vat would be paid anyway.

Re:Apple to Pay £3.8m Tax on £1.2bn UK Sales by benaadams on Monday July 01, 2019 @11:08AM (#20326034)
And those price rises would increase their profits which would ...